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Post by wayvis on Jul 17, 2023 22:21:54 GMT -5
Here's some numbers from last years Deer seasons. This is from the annual Deer Survey: "NUMBER OF HUNTERS, HARVEST, AND TOTAL HUNTER DAYS In the state of Florida during the 2022-2023 seasons, an estimated 136,355 hunters hunted deer, up from the 122,312 who hunted deer in the 2021-2022 seasons. These hunters harvested an estimated 93,485 deer, which is considerably more than the 74,098 harvested in the 2021-2022 seasons. Most of the harvest was in the General Gun season, in which 44,530 bucks and 17,147 does were harvested (61,677 deer in total). Deer hunters in Florida spent 2.6 million days hunting deer in Florida in the 2022-2023 seasons. NUMBER OF DEER HUNTERS BY DMU The survey obtained data to determine where deer hunters were hunting for deer in Florida in 2022-2023. This shows that DMUs D2 and D1 have more than 20,000 deer hunters, while DMUs C3, C6, and C4 each have more than 17,000 deer hunters. The body of the report has county-level numbers."  Chart above shows public land (WMA's) deer harvest estimate of 19,960 bucks and 4,889 does for a total of 24,539. The number of deer reported harvested for public lands through the deer report system was 7,905 bucks and 1595 does for a total of 9,503. This indicates that only 38.7% reported WMA Harvest. Of course, this depends on which number you won't to believe. I know most is not going to believe either. |
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 17, 2023 23:24:07 GMT -5
Whew! Too much info for after midnight. I hope this mandatory reporting of both deer and turkey works out. Now account for all the exempts and they'll have a clue what's really going on.
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Post by wayvis on Jul 18, 2023 7:50:54 GMT -5
Whew! Too much info for after midnight. I hope this mandatory reporting of both deer and turkey works out. Now account for all the exempts and they'll have a clue what's really going on. The mandatory reporting does account for exempt deer and Turkey harvest, but if hunters are only going to report 40 to 50 percent of their harvest it still an educated guess as to what's being harvested. Too me the big question is which numbers are closer to being right. Also in the annual survey is this. Percentage of Deer Hunters Harvesting the Given Number of Deer Did not harvest any deer 60.5% 1 deer 21.3% 2 deer 11.0% 3 deer 4.2% More than 3 deer 2.9% Looking at it another way is that 39.5% of hunters harvested at least one or more deer. |
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 18, 2023 8:00:10 GMT -5
The mandatory reporting of kills by exempts isn't my point. The lack of a clue on how many potential exempts actually hunt and fish is. I do not personally know of anyone receiving a survey of any type. Just discussed this with a PA guy who was surprised that when he came down for an Osceola hunt there were no physical tags and the two bird limit was strictly on the honor system.
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 18, 2023 8:09:34 GMT -5
I used to think MOST hunters had enough honor to voluntarily stop when they reached their limit. I'm not so sure anymore. I'm also not so sure 2 tags will stop MOST of those same law breakers from continuing with their shenanigans.
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Post by meateater on Jul 18, 2023 9:51:50 GMT -5
fire 2 hippies from the midnight levee driving python eradication team. now fwc has got the money to purchase hard tags, you get your tags with your license, 2 3 5 how ever many the state decides. deer gets tagged before you move it. get caught with a untagged deer, tag not completely clicked,someone elses tag and whatever other tricks guys wanna try and you lose your hunting rights for a year. 2nd offense lose it for 3 years. no excuses. too many loop holes with this call it in / app bullspit.
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 18, 2023 10:05:26 GMT -5
While I agree Meat, all of that is virtually useless if you have no personnel to enforce it. Sure it will make a few guys nervous enough to totally abide but I bet there are plenty die hard cheaters willing to risk it.
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 18, 2023 11:36:29 GMT -5
I'm just tickled Florida finally did something. Consider it a first step. I often heard of the 75/25 theory. 75% follow the rules 25% cheat. That 25% is way too high. Many look the other way and don't want to get involved. A hard decision.
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Post by wayvis on Jul 18, 2023 18:18:42 GMT -5
The mandatory reporting of kills by exempts isn't my point. The lack of a clue on how many potential exempts actually hunt and fish is. I do not personally know of anyone receiving a survey of any type. Just discussed this with a PA guy who was surprised that when he came down for an Osceola hunt there were no physical tags and the two bird limit was strictly on the honor system. I understand what you're saying but with the deer harvest reporting system and now turkeys anyone hunting these should have an FWC Customer ID number, so the FWC should have a good guess as to how many deer and turkey hunters we have. I agree that it's not as good as everyone having to have a hunting license. The worst thing is we are losing out on Federal funding. If memory serves me, I think to get the Federal funding the license had to have a cost to them. This is why FWC did not want to go with a mandatory free license. |
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Post by wayvis on Jul 18, 2023 18:42:02 GMT -5
I used to think MOST hunters had enough honor to voluntarily stop when they reached their limit. I'm not so sure anymore. I'm also not so sure 2 tags will stop MOST of those same law breakers from continuing with their shenanigans. harvesting over the limit is not the big problem, as the data indicates only 3% of hunters kill more than 3 deer and 60% harvest none. The problem is getting good reporting, so FWC doesn't need to guess what is actually being taken, so they don't have to manage our public lands so conservative. With only 38% reporting on public lands it makes it hard to manage these areas. One thing for sure is many quota WMAS could support more hunting than what is offered now. Short quota hunts on a lot of our WMAs have nothing to do with over harvesting, its all about what some hunters want and what many of the managing agencies what. |
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 18, 2023 20:23:59 GMT -5
Scenario - 4 resident exempts go to the Osceola National Forest to hunt turkey. One scores and follows the check in procedure. He now has a hunter number. The other three go home empty handed. How are they accounted for? There are no check stations in the ONF. They aren't accounted for except by the good guess method using a phone survey. That is why I take little stock in these estimates of hunter numbers. Exempts are a big hole in the FWC system and is obviously a long established vote buying scheme that cost dearly.
Add - these 4 imaginary exempts are all transplants from other states. None has ever purchased a Florida hunting or fishing license. They have established residency and have Florida driver's licenses so they are free to hunt and fish without ever paying a dime or be counted in their now home state. If any other state does this they are few and far between.
A heavily discounted senior license would solve so much. All politics.
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 18, 2023 20:24:02 GMT -5
Regardless, fwc, in its current state, is NOT going to utilize this information to loosen the red tape, or the rules, or to increase opportunities. In fact, you will see fewer opportunities, and more restrictive measures. That has been the trend, with, or without harvest information or deer counts for at least 30 years.
Watch and see.
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Post by wayvis on Jul 19, 2023 12:49:50 GMT -5
Regardless, fwc, in its current state, is NOT going to utilize this information to loosen the red tape, or the rules, or to increase opportunities. In fact, you will see fewer opportunities, and more restrictive measures. That has been the trend, with, or without harvest information or deer counts for at least 30 years. Watch and see. I agree, as long as only a few of us complain about these problems nothing is going to change for the better. Without a group representing public land hunters and working with FWC I don't see many if any good changes coming for public land hunters. All the short quota hunts is why I have not hunted public land in over 15 years. Got tired of trying to get FWC and lead agencies to expand hunts on WMAs, just one excuse after another as to why they can't have more hunting on our lands. One of the main excuses I use to here is that other users want to use these areas when it cool weather but they don't want to be out there when hunts are occurring. What's funny too me about this is they are now wanting access during hunts on area that did not allow this. |
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Post by wayvis on Jul 19, 2023 13:13:17 GMT -5
Scenario - 4 resident exempts go to the Osceola National Forest to hunt turkey. One scores and follows the check in procedure. He now has a hunter number. The other three go home empty handed. How are they accounted for? There are no check stations in the ONF. They aren't accounted for except by the good guess method using a phone survey. That is why I take little stock in these estimates of hunter numbers. Exempts are a big hole in the FWC system and is obviously a long established vote buying scheme that cost dearly. Add - these 4 imaginary exempts are all transplants from other states. None has ever purchased a Florida hunting or fishing license. They have established residency and have Florida driver's licenses so they are free to hunt and fish without ever paying a dime or be counted in their now home state. If any other state does this they are few and far between. A heavily discounted senior license would solve so much. All politics. First the only hunters not being accounted would be someone who starts hunting or fishing after they turn 65, or as you mentioned a nonresident who comes to the state when they are 65 or older. I would bet as far as hunting goes this is a small percentage of hunters. Overtime these hunters would be accounted for unless they never harvested anything. I can see your point when it comes to fishing. The only problem I have with requiring us old farts to have a license is that down the road they will want more and more money or require you to buy this or that permit. |
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 19, 2023 14:19:11 GMT -5
Resident fees in almost all states are ridiculous low so it shouldn't even be a consideration. Before I turned 65 I bought the annual Gold Sportsman for about $100.00. Offer a senior Gold Sportsman for about $25.00 and it would be a good deal for all concerned. Give Ron D and Niki F something else to argue about. Nothing harder to eliminate than a supposed entitlement.
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