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Post by wayvis on Jul 17, 2023 22:21:54 GMT -5
Here's some numbers from last years Deer seasons. This is from the annual Deer Survey: "NUMBER OF HUNTERS, HARVEST, AND TOTAL HUNTER DAYS In the state of Florida during the 2022-2023 seasons, an estimated 136,355 hunters hunted deer, up from the 122,312 who hunted deer in the 2021-2022 seasons. These hunters harvested an estimated 93,485 deer, which is considerably more than the 74,098 harvested in the 2021-2022 seasons. Most of the harvest was in the General Gun season, in which 44,530 bucks and 17,147 does were harvested (61,677 deer in total). Deer hunters in Florida spent 2.6 million days hunting deer in Florida in the 2022-2023 seasons. NUMBER OF DEER HUNTERS BY DMU The survey obtained data to determine where deer hunters were hunting for deer in Florida in 2022-2023. This shows that DMUs D2 and D1 have more than 20,000 deer hunters, while DMUs C3, C6, and C4 each have more than 17,000 deer hunters. The body of the report has county-level numbers."  Chart above shows public land (WMA's) deer harvest estimate of 19,960 bucks and 4,889 does for a total of 24,539. The number of deer reported harvested for public lands through the deer report system was 7,905 bucks and 1595 does for a total of 9,503. This indicates that only 38.7% reported WMA Harvest. Of course, this depends on which number you won't to believe. I know most is not going to believe either. |
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 17, 2023 23:24:07 GMT -5
Whew! Too much info for after midnight. I hope this mandatory reporting of both deer and turkey works out. Now account for all the exempts and they'll have a clue what's really going on.
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Post by wayvis on Jul 18, 2023 7:50:54 GMT -5
Whew! Too much info for after midnight. I hope this mandatory reporting of both deer and turkey works out. Now account for all the exempts and they'll have a clue what's really going on. The mandatory reporting does account for exempt deer and Turkey harvest, but if hunters are only going to report 40 to 50 percent of their harvest it still an educated guess as to what's being harvested. Too me the big question is which numbers are closer to being right. Also in the annual survey is this. Percentage of Deer Hunters Harvesting the Given Number of Deer Did not harvest any deer 60.5% 1 deer 21.3% 2 deer 11.0% 3 deer 4.2% More than 3 deer 2.9% Looking at it another way is that 39.5% of hunters harvested at least one or more deer. |
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 18, 2023 8:00:10 GMT -5
The mandatory reporting of kills by exempts isn't my point. The lack of a clue on how many potential exempts actually hunt and fish is. I do not personally know of anyone receiving a survey of any type. Just discussed this with a PA guy who was surprised that when he came down for an Osceola hunt there were no physical tags and the two bird limit was strictly on the honor system.
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 18, 2023 8:09:34 GMT -5
I used to think MOST hunters had enough honor to voluntarily stop when they reached their limit. I'm not so sure anymore. I'm also not so sure 2 tags will stop MOST of those same law breakers from continuing with their shenanigans.
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Post by meateater on Jul 18, 2023 9:51:50 GMT -5
fire 2 hippies from the midnight levee driving python eradication team. now fwc has got the money to purchase hard tags, you get your tags with your license, 2 3 5 how ever many the state decides. deer gets tagged before you move it. get caught with a untagged deer, tag not completely clicked,someone elses tag and whatever other tricks guys wanna try and you lose your hunting rights for a year. 2nd offense lose it for 3 years. no excuses. too many loop holes with this call it in / app bullspit.
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 18, 2023 10:05:26 GMT -5
While I agree Meat, all of that is virtually useless if you have no personnel to enforce it. Sure it will make a few guys nervous enough to totally abide but I bet there are plenty die hard cheaters willing to risk it.
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 18, 2023 11:36:29 GMT -5
I'm just tickled Florida finally did something. Consider it a first step. I often heard of the 75/25 theory. 75% follow the rules 25% cheat. That 25% is way too high. Many look the other way and don't want to get involved. A hard decision.
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Post by wayvis on Jul 18, 2023 18:18:42 GMT -5
The mandatory reporting of kills by exempts isn't my point. The lack of a clue on how many potential exempts actually hunt and fish is. I do not personally know of anyone receiving a survey of any type. Just discussed this with a PA guy who was surprised that when he came down for an Osceola hunt there were no physical tags and the two bird limit was strictly on the honor system. I understand what you're saying but with the deer harvest reporting system and now turkeys anyone hunting these should have an FWC Customer ID number, so the FWC should have a good guess as to how many deer and turkey hunters we have. I agree that it's not as good as everyone having to have a hunting license. The worst thing is we are losing out on Federal funding. If memory serves me, I think to get the Federal funding the license had to have a cost to them. This is why FWC did not want to go with a mandatory free license. |
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Post by wayvis on Jul 18, 2023 18:42:02 GMT -5
I used to think MOST hunters had enough honor to voluntarily stop when they reached their limit. I'm not so sure anymore. I'm also not so sure 2 tags will stop MOST of those same law breakers from continuing with their shenanigans. harvesting over the limit is not the big problem, as the data indicates only 3% of hunters kill more than 3 deer and 60% harvest none. The problem is getting good reporting, so FWC doesn't need to guess what is actually being taken, so they don't have to manage our public lands so conservative. With only 38% reporting on public lands it makes it hard to manage these areas. One thing for sure is many quota WMAS could support more hunting than what is offered now. Short quota hunts on a lot of our WMAs have nothing to do with over harvesting, its all about what some hunters want and what many of the managing agencies what. |
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 18, 2023 20:23:59 GMT -5
Scenario - 4 resident exempts go to the Osceola National Forest to hunt turkey. One scores and follows the check in procedure. He now has a hunter number. The other three go home empty handed. How are they accounted for? There are no check stations in the ONF. They aren't accounted for except by the good guess method using a phone survey. That is why I take little stock in these estimates of hunter numbers. Exempts are a big hole in the FWC system and is obviously a long established vote buying scheme that cost dearly.
Add - these 4 imaginary exempts are all transplants from other states. None has ever purchased a Florida hunting or fishing license. They have established residency and have Florida driver's licenses so they are free to hunt and fish without ever paying a dime or be counted in their now home state. If any other state does this they are few and far between.
A heavily discounted senior license would solve so much. All politics.
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 18, 2023 20:24:02 GMT -5
Regardless, fwc, in its current state, is NOT going to utilize this information to loosen the red tape, or the rules, or to increase opportunities. In fact, you will see fewer opportunities, and more restrictive measures. That has been the trend, with, or without harvest information or deer counts for at least 30 years.
Watch and see.
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Post by wayvis on Jul 19, 2023 12:49:50 GMT -5
Regardless, fwc, in its current state, is NOT going to utilize this information to loosen the red tape, or the rules, or to increase opportunities. In fact, you will see fewer opportunities, and more restrictive measures. That has been the trend, with, or without harvest information or deer counts for at least 30 years. Watch and see. I agree, as long as only a few of us complain about these problems nothing is going to change for the better. Without a group representing public land hunters and working with FWC I don't see many if any good changes coming for public land hunters. All the short quota hunts is why I have not hunted public land in over 15 years. Got tired of trying to get FWC and lead agencies to expand hunts on WMAs, just one excuse after another as to why they can't have more hunting on our lands. One of the main excuses I use to here is that other users want to use these areas when it cool weather but they don't want to be out there when hunts are occurring. What's funny too me about this is they are now wanting access during hunts on area that did not allow this. |
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Post by wayvis on Jul 19, 2023 13:13:17 GMT -5
Scenario - 4 resident exempts go to the Osceola National Forest to hunt turkey. One scores and follows the check in procedure. He now has a hunter number. The other three go home empty handed. How are they accounted for? There are no check stations in the ONF. They aren't accounted for except by the good guess method using a phone survey. That is why I take little stock in these estimates of hunter numbers. Exempts are a big hole in the FWC system and is obviously a long established vote buying scheme that cost dearly. Add - these 4 imaginary exempts are all transplants from other states. None has ever purchased a Florida hunting or fishing license. They have established residency and have Florida driver's licenses so they are free to hunt and fish without ever paying a dime or be counted in their now home state. If any other state does this they are few and far between. A heavily discounted senior license would solve so much. All politics. First the only hunters not being accounted would be someone who starts hunting or fishing after they turn 65, or as you mentioned a nonresident who comes to the state when they are 65 or older. I would bet as far as hunting goes this is a small percentage of hunters. Overtime these hunters would be accounted for unless they never harvested anything. I can see your point when it comes to fishing. The only problem I have with requiring us old farts to have a license is that down the road they will want more and more money or require you to buy this or that permit. |
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 19, 2023 14:19:11 GMT -5
Resident fees in almost all states are ridiculous low so it shouldn't even be a consideration. Before I turned 65 I bought the annual Gold Sportsman for about $100.00. Offer a senior Gold Sportsman for about $25.00 and it would be a good deal for all concerned. Give Ron D and Niki F something else to argue about. Nothing harder to eliminate than a supposed entitlement.
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Post by wayvis on Jul 19, 2023 20:56:16 GMT -5
Resident fees in almost all states are ridiculous low so it shouldn't even be a consideration. Before I turned 65 I bought the annual Gold Sportsman for about $100.00. Offer a senior Gold Sportsman for about $25.00 and it would be a good deal for all concerned. Give Ron D and Niki F something else to argue about. Nothing harder to eliminate than a supposed entitlement. If I thought the money was going to good use it wouldn't bother me, but why do you want keep taxing hunters and fishers more than all the other users. Most other users paid nothing on many public areas to recreate, so why do we have to. We pay taxes just like all other users so why is the budget for FWC not paid out of the general funds or user fees that everyone pays? As it is now all the other users get to use the areas all year, you're lucky to get a hunt on many of these places every 5 or 6 years. Not only do we get tax for just hunting, but if you want to hunt with a bow, muzzleloader, deer, or turkeys you have to pay more taxes. All these taxes are called licenses or permits, what a gimmick. Every time you turn around, they are wanting you to buy another stamp or permit of some kind. All these different seasons (bow, muzzleloader, crossbow, etc.) are just a way for FWC to collect taxes so they don't have to ask for general revenue funding. Many moons ago when the FWC actually was there for hunters and fishers I didn't have a problem with the fee's. Now they cater to all these other users, and we get the crumbs. |
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Post by Stumpy on Jul 19, 2023 22:44:50 GMT -5
Resident fees in almost all states are ridiculous low so it shouldn't even be a consideration. Before I turned 65 I bought the annual Gold Sportsman for about $100.00. Offer a senior Gold Sportsman for about $25.00 and it would be a good deal for all concerned. Give Ron D and Niki F something else to argue about. Nothing harder to eliminate than a supposed entitlement. Why the heck are your bitching about exempt hunters and the perks they get when 65 and older, when you your self are over 65 and can enjoy being exempt from license fees and some of the quota requirements. wtf? As far as non residents over 65, they are still required to purchase license to hunt and fish. If you want make a impact, raise their turkey permit fees. Take it out on them, don't take it out on residents over 65 who received a benefit from the State of Florida. |
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Post by Crkr 23 on Jul 20, 2023 5:20:36 GMT -5
I'm over 65 and would not object to paying license fees as it would include us in the general pool of hunters thus allowing us (hunters) to receive our fair share of federal (Pittman- Roberson) money.
I do enjoy the perk of a few WMAs allowing exempt hunters. I don't believe that the majority of us(exempt hunters) are a threat to the quality of hunts on these WMAs due to the fact that a lot of us have limiting health issues.
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 20, 2023 6:03:06 GMT -5
The loss of the millions of $$ of PR Funds is reason enough for low cost senior licenses. Having an unknown number of exempts running amok maybe a bigger reason. I'm sure accomodations could be made for the physically and fiscally challenged. Sort of like food stamps for sportsmen.
FWC does such a good job with charts, such as the one displayed on this thread, I'm sure they could create one showing the amount of PR funds potentially available that they do not currently receive do to this unnecessary politically motivated freebie.
A low cost senior Gold Sportsman license covers all the arguments about extra turkey license, bow license, mzl license, snook stamp, etc. I did have to print a required of all free Reef Angler permit. I'm submitting a bill to FWC for the printer ink and my time to complete. I'll explain that I'm an exempt and entitled to reimbursement.
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 20, 2023 6:48:33 GMT -5
I may be the odd man out here but if I have to buy a license to hunt in FL when I turn 65, I will more likely quit. I think more than just me feel this way too, so who might gain from any unknown attrition?
As I've said many times before, fwc, in its current state of mind does not prioritize hunting and is beholden to the political whims of the times. Hunting is way down on the list of importance.
Good people leaving the agency is not solely because of money.
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 20, 2023 7:07:24 GMT -5
How about to fish? Quit that also?
Btw - 1000% in favor of all WMA use require the WMA permit. That won't happen either. The horse people seem to have a better lobbying group than the hunters.
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 20, 2023 7:20:18 GMT -5
I may quit fishing too... except, you have to remember, it's a whole lot easier to fish than to hunt in FL, so I might hang in longer for fishing. Not to mention, fishing is year round.
And, you're correct... the horse people have WAY more clout than the hunting community. Times are changing. Let's face it; certain things are much less palatable than just a few years ago, (almost intolerable!) and certain things are WAY more acceptable today. I can think of several off the top of my head.
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Post by cadman on Jul 20, 2023 8:48:22 GMT -5
I'm over 65 and would not object to paying license fees as it would include us in the general pool of hunters thus allowing us (hunters) to receive our fair share of federal (Pittman- Roberson) money. I do enjoy the perk of a few WMAs allowing exempt hunters. I don't believe that the majority of us(exempt hunters) are a threat to the quality of hunts on these WMAs due to the fact that a lot of us have limiting health issues. You can go to the FWC website and get the Resident 65+ Hunt/Fish Certificate for free and be sure your are counted. I got mine when I turned 65 for fishing. |
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Post by Crkr 23 on Jul 20, 2023 8:54:11 GMT -5
If you think fishing is easier, you need to try jumping through all the hoops required to grouper or snapper fish, especially the east coast snapper cluster-fuck. I do realize most of the BS comes down through the feds, go figure.
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Post by Crkr 23 on Jul 20, 2023 8:56:28 GMT -5
I did not know
of the certificate. I will go online and apply. Thanks Cadman.
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 20, 2023 8:59:03 GMT -5
If you think fishing is easier, you need to try jumping through all the hoops required to grouper or snapper fish, especially the east coast snapper cluster-fuck. I do realize most of the BS comes down through the feds, go figure. Just did an emergency gulf coast closure on red grouper and amberjack. There is really no reason to publish a once a year fishing guide. They change the rules weekly. |
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 20, 2023 9:03:28 GMT -5
I'm over 65 and would not object to paying license fees as it would include us in the general pool of hunters thus allowing us (hunters) to receive our fair share of federal (Pittman- Roberson) money. I do enjoy the perk of a few WMAs allowing exempt hunters. I don't believe that the majority of us(exempt hunters) are a threat to the quality of hunts on these WMAs due to the fact that a lot of us have limiting health issues. You can go to the FWC website and get the Resident 65+ Hunt/Fish Certificate for free and be sure your are counted. I got mine when I turned 65 for fishing. I did not know that. That, at the very least, should be a requirement and not an option. May have been designed for the few with no other way to prove residency. It may be the least publized FWC option. As long as it's free most would comply. |
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 20, 2023 9:05:51 GMT -5
If you think fishing is easier, you need to try jumping through all the hoops required to grouper or snapper fish, especially the east coast snapper cluster-fuck. I do realize most of the BS comes down through the feds, go figure. You're right about that! I seldom fish the salt anymore. Honestly don't fish much at all. I lack the free time. Of course I spent 40 years out there catching just about everything a man might want to catch. At the risk of tooting my own horn, but being completely truthful, my species list is extremely extensive, so other than killing a few food fish to eat I have no more zeal to fuck around in the ocean for a fish. Now if you took away fly fishing for bream and other panfish, or cane poles and specks, I might start a uprising.  |
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 20, 2023 9:07:02 GMT -5
If you think fishing is easier, you need to try jumping through all the hoops required to grouper or snapper fish, especially the east coast snapper cluster-fuck. I do realize most of the BS comes down through the feds, go figure. Just did an emergency gulf coast closure on red grouper and amberjack. There is really no reason to publish a once a year fishing guide. They change the rules weekly. I totally agree with the speed and frequency that this shit changes. |
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Post by richm on Jul 20, 2023 10:01:39 GMT -5
If you think fishing is easier, you need to try jumping through all the hoops required to grouper or snapper fish, especially the east coast snapper cluster-fuck. I do realize most of the BS comes down through the feds, go figure. Just did an emergency gulf coast closure on red grouper and amberjack. There is really no reason to publish a once a year fishing guide. They change the rules weekly. Gulf AJ isn't even open until August 1 - is that what you mean? Red Grouper closes tomorrow July 21. Dang - we kept 7 last Saturday. Good eating. |
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