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Post by james14 on Oct 18, 2023 17:59:18 GMT -5
So, FWC now only allows Class 1 ebikes to be used on bike trails, closed roads, etc. FL law outlines what defines the different classifications, states that a sticker indicating the class must be on the bike, and that the bike cannot be modified UNLESS the sticker is changed to reflect the new class.
So, my question is this:
If an officer sees you riding out on an ebike, what authority do they have to check your bike? Let's assume they do not see you using a throttle on the bike and that you have a "Class 1" sticker on the bike. Let's assume the throttle is actually unplugged or otherwise made inoperable so that this cannot be assumed that I'm looking for a way to break the law. This is a legitimate question that has not been answered by FWC.
If they see the throttle, does that give them any authority, or probable cause, to check it themselves? Or to force you to prove that the throttle doesn't work? If the bike has a "Class 1" sticker and the officer never sees you using a throttle, can they compel you to give them any further info or check the bike beyond seeing the sticker?
Fl Classifications:
(a) “Class 1 electric bicycle” means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the electric bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
(b) “Class 2 electric bicycle” means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the electric bicycle and that ceases to provide assistance when the electric bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
Classification Sticker Rules:
(3) Beginning January 1, 2021, manufacturers and distributors of electric bicycles shall apply a label that is permanently affixed in a prominent location to each electric bicycle. The label must contain the classification number, top assisted speed, and motor wattage of the electric bicycle.
(4) A person may not tamper with or modify an electric bicycle so as to change the motor-powered speed capability or engagement of an electric bicycle, unless the label indicating the classification number required in subsection (3) is replaced after such modification.
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Post by Crkr 23 on Oct 18, 2023 18:47:19 GMT -5
You can get classification stickers from Amazon and according to the last paragraph you can modify the bike if you change the stickers. This is just my opinion, it will be interesting to see Bullfrog's response.
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Post by james14 on Oct 18, 2023 19:42:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I have a Class 1 sticker on my bike. If asked, I want to be respectful, but also not give any consent that I don't have to. I just can't see where I can be compelled to start pushing buttons, levers, or showing how and where wires are connected.
The same issue could arise with the difference between Class 1 and 3. If there's a Class 1 sticker, and no throttle at all, can the rider be compelled to demonstrate the bike won't go over 20mph? Can you picture the officer, "Yeah, I'm gonna need you to ride as fast as you can down this woods road while I hit you with the radar gun."
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Post by JS84 on Oct 18, 2023 20:16:28 GMT -5
I was having a conversation with my buddy about this exact subject. I will not obstruct an investigation, but I also will not assist in an investigation. If an officer is checking my shotgun for shell capacity limits, they should know how to determine if it's plugged or not. The same overall principle applies to my ebike.
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Post by cadman on Oct 19, 2023 8:48:46 GMT -5
If there is a throttle on the e-bike, I believe it is a class 2 bike. You would need to remove the throttle for it to be a class 1 bike. Disconnecting it does not make it a class one Ebike. That is my understanding of the law, but Bullfrog will be able to give a better answer. I think evidence of a throttle is probable cause to suspect the bike is a class 2 e-bike since the difference is the throttle.
I doubt a cop is going to ask you to prove the max speed if the sticker says class 1 and has no throttle, but if he catches you going 30 mph, he might have cause to suspect the bike is not a class 1 E-bike.
My theory is to assist as much as possible. If you want to be a pain about it, you could run into an asshole cop who decides to impound the Ebike for evidence if he believes it violates the law. I would prove it does not so I can go on about my day as quickly as possible.
What you or I may think a cop has a right to do may be different than what he thinks he has a right to do. Arguing those fine points on the side of the road will always result in a loss for you. You have to argue them in court. So refusing to do as the officer asks, whether you think it is a legal request or not, is never a good idea. Inform them you do not consent to any searches but do as they ask, record the event if possible, and let an attorney argue it in court if the cop violates your rights.
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Post by Crkr 23 on Oct 19, 2023 12:54:09 GMT -5
The problem is finding a fat tire class 1 bike. The only class 1 bikes that I found were high dollar European road bikes.
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Post by meateater on Oct 19, 2023 13:53:26 GMT -5
i have a class 5 ebike similar to a yamaha yz 125. just kidding but its a beast. if vehicles are allowed on trail or levee any ebike is allowed, its when you go on a trail or levee or off road where vehicles are not allowed where you may have a problem. my solution for now is to only use the bike early morning before its light out and a hour after sunset . i still see plenty of rambos and quiet cats so i will use mine until i stop seeing others using them or i get enough warnings. this is a top 10 stupid woke ass fwc rule anyway. any officer with at least one nut should not harass you over a electric bike, the one who stopped me last month was cool, just keep it on roads,levees,trails open to other vehicles, no off roading or mudding he said then we both laughed.
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Post by james14 on Oct 19, 2023 14:46:22 GMT -5
I definitely don't intend to be an ass about it. I know that won't end well. But I also don't want to go into demo mode when they should only have to look at the sticker unless they actually see the bike being used in a way that doesn't conform to that classification. I've only had my license checked once in my 25 years of actually holding a license and never had my bow or firearm checked. I assume the same will happen with my bike, but I just want to be prepared because it's new and might get extra scrutiny.
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Post by swampdog on Oct 19, 2023 15:10:29 GMT -5
Had an e-bike guy fussing about a guy in a jeep driving down the same closed road he rode his bike down. I pushed his button a little playfully as we’re close friends and he did say the road was closed to his bike as well. I don’t know if it was the class of his bike or not. His is fast and has a throttle.
Anyone know why the FWC changed the rules on classification’s?
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Post by One Man Gang on Oct 19, 2023 15:16:25 GMT -5
Just more complex bullshit rule making.
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Post by meateater on Oct 20, 2023 10:02:10 GMT -5
Just more complex bullshit rule making. kinda like the no hunting license needed to hunt hogs on wmas during hog or small game seasons, nothing like being in the woods with people who have no experience at all, most dont speak english so you know they cant read the brochure and on some wmas walking around with ar,s or 30/06. im sure fwc polled all the legit hunters and asked them what they think about this rule. undocumented season they should name it. |
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Glenn
Junior Member
Posts: 96
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Post by Glenn on Oct 20, 2023 17:25:57 GMT -5
Just walk and be happy!
I looked into the e-bike craze mainly for Turkey season. However, I started to think about some of the areas I hunt here in the pandhandle and how much easier it is to walk or come in by canoe.
Just too many rules in this state anymore.
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Post by bullfrog on Oct 20, 2023 23:19:10 GMT -5
Sorry just saw this. I’ve been consumed by a trial all week. I’m decompressing now. Let me get a good night’s sleep and I’ll do a writeup this weekend.
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Post by bullfrog on Oct 21, 2023 7:18:52 GMT -5
I know nothing about the regulations on e-bikes. I am taking your assertions about their requirements as a given fact.
So let’s make some more assumptions.
1. This is a WMA or other FWC-managed land.
2. You show indicia of hunting or fishing.
If 1 and 2 are true, then I think they can stop you and inspect the bike.
The case law gives the FWC broader authority than most LEOs so long as you appear to be hunting or fishing. If you don’t appear to be engaging in those activities, the rules follow pretty much the same as any other LEO for stops.
Now let’s assume 1 but not 2. You are biking in a WMA, but not hunting or fishing, can a FWC officer do an inspection of your bike to make sure it complies?
That’s going to be more tricky. The starting point is to know that if you were in a truck in the WMA and not on a bike, and the truck isn’t visually breaking any rules, an officer can’t stop you in the truck to check you for something just because you’re in the WMA. There’s a case on that from several years ago. And there’s a whole line of cases that define when a LEO can and cannot detain someone on a bike (pretty much the same rules as motor vehicles) out on the city streets.
So if I put the two lines of cases together, I’d say a LEO can’t stop and check your bike just because you’re in the WMA. Except…
I could foresee an argument prevailing that says the environmental impact of motorized bikes is such that specifically in those areas where they are regulated, the FWC may perform regulatory inspections on them.
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Post by bullfrog on Oct 21, 2023 7:26:08 GMT -5
I am pretty sure there’s a line of cases that talk about pulling over e-bikes on regular streets. Would probably be instructive. I’ll do some looking.
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Post by swampdog on Oct 21, 2023 16:00:09 GMT -5
If the issue is rutting up the woods/trails then it wouldn’t have to involve hunting. I have almost no experience with them other than seeing where a bike has been ridden.
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Post by james14 on Oct 22, 2023 19:53:48 GMT -5
Thank you Bullfrog. I knew they had a little more leeway, but I wasn't sure to what extent. I feel like it ultimately comes down to who you encounter and how they're feeling on that day. If the issue is rutting up the woods/trails then it wouldn’t have to involve hunting. I have almost no experience with them other than seeing where a bike has been ridden. What I was told back in 2020 when this started was that their decision was based upon safety and trail damage. Neither of those make any sense when comparing Class 1 and 2, and considering the damage that horses cause to trails. The throttle makes the bike safer and horses causes WAY more damage to trails. |
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Post by ogbohica on Oct 23, 2023 9:41:51 GMT -5
Just more complex bullshit rule making. kinda like the no hunting license needed to hunt hogs on wmas during hog or small game seasons, nothing like being in the woods with people who have no experience at all, most dont speak english so you know they cant read the brochure and on some wmas walking around with ar,s or 30/06. im sure fwc polled all the legit hunters and asked them what they think about this rule. undocumented season they should name it. LOL=== BOHICA this state is so full of rules,boundaries,special regulations it stinks to high hell |
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Post by Stumpy on Oct 23, 2023 14:07:25 GMT -5
I'm thinking based on past rule making, if enough people bitch about the ebike rules they will change them.
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Post by ogbohica on Oct 23, 2023 15:14:04 GMT -5
They never change back for the better, name one instance? bet you cant
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Post by Stumpy on Oct 23, 2023 15:50:06 GMT -5
I qualified for a Alternative Mobility Permit for this year, last year I did not qualify. All due to rule change.
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Post by meateater on Oct 24, 2023 12:26:19 GMT -5
Just walk and be happy! I looked into the e-bike craze mainly for Turkey season. However, I started to think about some of the areas I hunt here in the pandhandle and how much easier it is to walk or come in by canoe. Just too many rules in this state anymore. i can remember it like it was yesterday, 10 th in line opening morning of turkey season at three lakes, first to the green pipe that blocks the trail head. parked truck and started the 45 minute walk out towards canoe creek road. 1/2 hour into the walk 2 guys on ebikes cruise by and 5 minutes later couple more. i knew 10 years ago these things where gonna be a issue. after being passed by or beaten to areas from allapatta to dinner island , big cypress to kicco i finally bought one and will continue to use it till all motorized bikes are not allowed. personally i think most people who use them are lazy and would never hunt 2 or 3 miles from there vehicle. you used to be able to get away from most other hunters with just a little bit of hard work / walking. not anymore |
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Post by james14 on Oct 24, 2023 20:15:34 GMT -5
i can remember it like it was yesterday, 10 th in line opening morning of turkey season at three lakes, first to the green pipe that blocks the trail head. parked truck and started the 45 minute walk out towards canoe creek road. 1/2 hour into the walk 2 guys on ebikes cruise by and 5 minutes later couple more. i knew 10 years ago these things where gonna be a issue. after being passed by or beaten to areas from allapatta to dinner island , big cypress to kicco i finally bought one and will continue to use it till all motorized bikes are not allowed. personally i think most people who use them are lazy and would never hunt 2 or 3 miles from there vehicle. you used to be able to get away from most other hunters with just a little bit of hard work / walking. not anymore I know some have had this experience, and IMO it's unacceptable to blast by someone without checking to see where they're headed. This is less an issue with bikes and more of an issue with be an inconsiderate a-hole. Personally, I don't go any further than I already did except for the rare cases where there just wouldn't be enough time due to the distance and when the gates opened. However, since it allows some to push further than they would normally go, it opens up areas closer to the truck. On one WMA I hunt that sees a LOT of ebikes I have a spot less than 100 yards from THE main road and it's covered in buck sign every year. This year I haven't used it much at all on my main WMA and just shot a 10pt 1/4 mile from the truck. |
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Post by meateater on Oct 25, 2023 9:29:19 GMT -5
only thing my ebike has done for me is it made getting a deer or hog outa the woods 75% easier, the extreme south east corner of allapatta flats, mile or so past the end of road 5 at dinner island, 2 miles past the end of four sections road at ok slough, additions land, corbett, kicco . all places i could walk to in 90 minutes or less and almost never seen another hunter. today all these places are covered with trail cams and brand new climbers all by guys who use ebikes. you will never change my mind that ebikes made it easier for guys to hunt in areas that they would never dream of hunting if they had to walk or peddle. just my opinion i dont care one way or the other but if it was my choice all motorized bikes would be illegal.
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Post by richm on Oct 25, 2023 10:17:39 GMT -5
I used an ebike while scouting and it allowed me to check 4-5 spots as opposed to just 1 if i had walked. A game changer for sure.
The main issue with ebikes involves someone getting close to them or beating em to a spot. Competition is getting tighter every year. I keep getting older.
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Post by swampdog on Oct 25, 2023 13:01:14 GMT -5
Saw a large person riding an e-bike on the sidewalk next to the grocery store the other day. I couldn’t help but wonder why someone obviously needing a little exercise wouldn’t be walking.
Same in the woods. Man was made to walk.
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Post by anumber1 on Oct 25, 2023 15:27:18 GMT -5
Saw a large person riding an e-bike on the sidewalk next to the grocery store the other day. I couldn’t help but wonder why someone obviously needing a little exercise wouldn’t be walking. Same in the woods. Man was made to walk. so, when medical conditions make walking difficult then those folks need to stay home? Got it! I have always said that when the high and mighty still hunters (most DMTAG members) get dog hunting outlawed then I will become one very vocal anti hunter. |
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Post by swampdog on Oct 25, 2023 17:17:42 GMT -5
A-1 You’re correct. I forgot to say if medical or health conditions make enjoyment of a past time painful or impossible then yes get the permit to drive or use whatever is available to participate. However, there are a lot of folks that have just gotten lazy. BTW I don’t know where the outlawing of dog hunting came from.
In truth, I’m a dog hunter and waiting on the opening. I have two WMAs I hunt with hounds.
I still bow hunt, MZ hunt, stand hunt and run hounds. I also duck hunt a “tiny bit” and hunt small game when time allows.
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Post by anumber1 on Oct 26, 2023 14:17:55 GMT -5
A-1 You’re correct. I forgot to say if medical or health conditions make enjoyment of a past time painful or impossible then yes get the permit to drive or use whatever is available to participate. However, there are a lot of folks that have just gotten lazy. BTW I don’t know where the outlawing of dog hunting came from. In truth, I’m a dog hunter and waiting on the opening. I have two WMAs I hunt with hounds. I still bow hunt, MZ hunt, stand hunt and run hounds. I also duck hunt a “tiny bit” and hunt small game when time allows. one DMTAG meeting I attended and ole Newton bout getting his ass kicked in Chiefland.. lol just pointing out that when hunters divide it's not good for any of us. If you gonna restrict technology then do it across the board, apps, cameras, inline muzzloaders, etc. |
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Post by pinman on Oct 30, 2023 20:57:34 GMT -5
Saw a large person riding an e-bike on the sidewalk next to the grocery store the other day. I couldn’t help but wonder why someone obviously needing a little exercise wouldn’t be walking. Same in the woods. Man was made to walk. I hope you dont sport around in one of dem new fangled "horseless carriages".....  ....just sayin..... |
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....just sayin.....