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Post by JS84 on Jun 22, 2023 8:51:42 GMT -5
Last year I harvested a tight basket 8 point that was about 130#s. I lunged him in the driver side at 50 yards while quartering to. On impact, he took off running towards me and I hit him again in full stride at around 40 yards. The second shot crumpled him. While butchering I noticed both shots were clean passthroughs, with wound channels about the size of a pencil. Long story short, neither bullet expanded but luckily the shots were terminal. I was shooting 140Gr Nosler Ballistic tips in 6.5CR. Some post season research leads me to find that these Nosler bullets don't reach terminal velocity until around 400yards from the muzzle. Speaking with some of my hunting buddies, I polled them on what bullets they shoot. All of them are in state hunters and most shoot some variation of a softpoint. The Noslers shoot extremely accurate but I'm willing sacrifice a little accuracy for improved ballistics at closer ranges. I'm looked into Federal Fusion and Hornady American Whitetail rounds; both of which are softpoint that state they are for game under 300# and at distances under 250yds. I'm curious what you all shoot and your experiences in the field with various bullet types. Educate me  |
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Post by One Man Gang on Jun 22, 2023 9:44:16 GMT -5
In my mind, your bullet blew right through him and didn't have a chance to expand. My experience killing a lot of deer with lighter calibers has lead me to shooting strictly soft points. Keep in mind most of our shots are less than 100yds in FL. Usually much less. If I was out west I might be more inclined to shoot a ballistic tip. I've used them here but have had "meh" results.
I personally love shooting American Whitetail ammo and Winchester deer season. We've killed a lot of deer over the years with that stuff in 223/5.56, 243, and 7-08 and have had very good results out to 300yds. It's cheaper too which makes it even more attractive.
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Post by JS84 on Jun 22, 2023 9:59:45 GMT -5
In my mind, your bullet blew right through him and didn't have a chance to expand. My exact thought too. |
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Post by altuck on Jun 22, 2023 10:36:39 GMT -5
I have used Remington Corelokts for years and have believe them to be the most consistent in accuracy
and lethality in a broad range pf calibers, ie: 2506, 308 35rem.
I have used the 25-06 120 grain corelokts for years taking deer in Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, and Kentucky.
When I could not find Remington corelokts a couple years ago I found 117 grain Hornady interlokts to be just as accurate and effective.
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Post by JS84 on Jun 22, 2023 10:43:14 GMT -5
The Rem Corelokts, yellow and green box, were another that was recommended to me. I'll toss them into the mix too as I see they have them in 140gr, which my rifle throws well. I think between the Federal Fusions, American WTs, and the Corelokts, we'll have a winner in there.
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Post by richm on Jun 22, 2023 14:46:58 GMT -5
In short, your bullets were defective. Nosler BTs should have expanded.
If you research the bullet velocities for a specific caliber, you'll see that they all start high and then slow down as they go. A bullet expands more rapidly at higher velocities, less at slower.
There is also no such thing as an expanding bullet "just blowing thru" them without expanding. Hit a tree with a car - what happens? That's what is supposed to happen to an expanding bullet. The faster the car hits the tree, the more it expands - same for a bullet on a deer. Only a solid bullet does not expand when it hits stuff - but it will deform if it hits something hard enough. A simple test is shooting a gallon of water at 100 yards at the range - what happens when it gets hit?
You need soft point lead bullets.
Glad you got the buck!
See what you can get easiest - core loct or the Hornady whitetail bullets - see which shoots best and buy a case. I think the fusions are a little tough for FL animals.
I shoot reloads of diff calibers using pointed soft points for deer and other stuff. Will buy factory ammo from time to time when it is on sale and then re-use the brass.
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Post by hunter85 on Jun 22, 2023 20:10:43 GMT -5
Are you sure you have ballistic tips and not accu bond? Bt’s are a thinner jacket soft lead core bullet where as the AB’s have a bit heavier jacket that is chemically bonded to the lead core. At higher velocities of closer ranges should cause the bullet to act more like a varmint style bullet so it should have had a violent expansion and no penetration. The tips are in place on these types of bullets are there to initiate the expansion of the bullet being driven into the slug. I personally do like to use a heavy for caliber slug in a rounded soft point when shots are known to be <75 yards, and a harder base bullet when hunting with magnum speed calibers. My main go to hunting rifle for where I hunt, I shoot Seirra game changers which is a tipped bullet that is thinner walled none bonded but most of my shots are more likely to be 80-160 yards.
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Post by JS84 on Jun 23, 2023 6:33:40 GMT -5
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Post by richm on Jun 23, 2023 6:40:38 GMT -5
That 40 yard shot should have exploded on the deer. Main thing is you got him - and are on to better bullets for whitetail deer hunting. |
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Post by JS84 on Jun 23, 2023 7:07:35 GMT -5
Yes sir. You live and you learn. That's the idea at least.
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Post by swampdog on Jun 23, 2023 14:58:02 GMT -5
I agree with the advice. Have killed a ton of deer with Remington core-lok and Winchester soft points. Furthest was a good buck at 175 yds (.243) and he went 30 yds. I’m using a .35 Remington this season.
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Post by richm on Jun 23, 2023 15:37:30 GMT -5
I agree with the advice. Have killed a ton of deer with Remington core-lok and Winchester soft points. Furthest was a good buck at 175 yds (.243) and he went 30 yds. I’m using a .35 Remington this season. Love the .35 caliber bullets. I been playing with 357 mag and 350 Legend rifles - the 357 Mag will shoot well to 200 yards and I hunt with it when expecting shots inside 100 yds - have a pointy bullet that has some promise, I might stretch it if have a deer in a field cause I wouldn't expect an exit wound. The Legend will shoot well at 250 and I will use it to 250 if the opportunity presents itself. |
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Post by pinman on Jun 23, 2023 18:28:44 GMT -5
Ive only shot 1 Deer in the last 40 years but in my experience 3.5" 00 buck lays em down flat at 30 yards....
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Post by bswiv on Jun 25, 2023 9:35:12 GMT -5
Having used mostly a 25-06 for the first 25 years and then shifting to a .35 Rem when I got older.....I will note that to have a exit wound is not a bad thing. We'll all have to trail one now and again.....even one that only bolts a hundred yards into the "thick stuff" and is dead in a minute. And to have two points from which material we can use to find it coming out is a good thing.
I would note that the .25 would often drop them on the spot whereas the .35 almost always left a little following, but not much. But.....the last 20 years or so only used a red dot and never shot anything over about 60 yards, most much closer, which helps.
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Post by pinman on Jun 25, 2023 17:48:43 GMT -5
Having used mostly a 25-06 for the first 25 years and then shifting to a .35 Rem when I got older.....I will note that to have a exit wound is not a bad thing. We'll all have to trail one now and again.....even one that only bolts a hundred yards into the "thick stuff" and is dead in a minute. And to have two points from which material we can use to find it coming out is a good thing. I would note that the .25 would often drop them on the spot whereas the .35 almost always left a little following, but not much. But.....the last 20 years or so only used a red dot and never shot anything over about 60 yards, most much closer, which helps. If I was shootin em at closer than 60 yards Id just use the aforementioned 00 Buck....but then again, Im a scattergun shooter at heart.... |
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Post by bindersmom on Jun 27, 2023 12:10:21 GMT -5
<---- .30-.30 Rem Core Lokt. I shoot it 2 or 3 times a year, they always work.
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Post by bottom feeder on Jun 27, 2023 15:09:49 GMT -5
I had really bad luck with Hornady ballistic tips, no exit wound. I switched over to Barnes tsx, much better bullet.
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Post by johnnybandit on Jun 28, 2023 23:01:42 GMT -5
Having used mostly a 25-06 for the first 25 years and then shifting to a .35 Rem when I got older.....I will note that to have a exit wound is not a bad thing. We'll all have to trail one now and again.....even one that only bolts a hundred yards into the "thick stuff" and is dead in a minute. And to have two points from which material we can use to find it coming out is a good thing. I would note that the .25 would often drop them on the spot whereas the .35 almost always left a little following, but not much. But.....the last 20 years or so only used a red dot and never shot anything over about 60 yards, most much closer, which helps. If I was shootin em at closer than 60 yards Id just use the aforementioned 00 Buck....but then again, Im a scattergun shooter at heart.... I am with you.... I LOVE my rifles. But my first deer hunting was in front of dogs with shotguns and buckshot..... we killed a lot of deer, a lot farther than you would think you could... Of course we took chances at times.. if we knocked them down and they got up, the dogs were coming and gonna be on their as quick....
If I had drawn dinner this year. My plan to hunt the deer I want... W as to use my Henry Single Shot 3.5 inch with a Carlsons buckshot tube.... I am confident it will be effective out to 60-70 yards
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Post by james14 on Jun 29, 2023 22:44:45 GMT -5
I would say that there is almost a zero percent chance that a BT bullet pencil-holed straight through a deer. However, it's possible the bullet had a flaw of some sort. It's much more likely that it blew apart and the pencil hole exit was either the Nosler base or another fragment.
Outside of solid copper bullets, BTs should never be used for anything larger than varmints in centerfire rifles in the vast majority of cases.
One thing to clear up - there is no "terminal velocity". Perhaps this is the ideal velocity for reliable expansion, in which case a BT would over-expand at a higher velocity (or closer range). Again, they shouldn't be used unless you happen to be hunting at extreme ranges (400 yards+).
If you want to use BTs, use them with a solid bullet like in the Barnes TTSX. Other manufacturers are getting on board as well. I've used Hornady's tipped GMX bullet with success. Otherwise, you really can't go wrong with a plain soft-point bullet. I killed a pile of deer with the 130gr Power Point out of my 270 and never had a single hint of poor performance. I only switched to the Hornady when my gun stopped shooting them accurately.
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Post by wayvis on Jun 30, 2023 12:52:04 GMT -5
James great advice. Why do you think your gun stopped shooting them accurately?
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Post by richm on Jun 30, 2023 13:27:50 GMT -5
They redesigned the BT bullet, supposedly more like a Scirroco light these days as opposed to being like a varmint grenade.
SST is Hornady’s version but they didnt have the intial issues so no-one talks about those.
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Post by swampdog on Jun 30, 2023 15:23:28 GMT -5
James I read your post with some interest regarding the loss of accuracy in your .270. If it’s handling the other rounds it may be a moot point, however the .270s if shot a lot can result in a loss of accuracy. It used to be referred to as shooting the barrel out. I don’t remember the number of shots it might take but the high velocity of the .270 would eventually hurt the accuracy. I’ve read this can also happen to .357 caliber pistols. I just toss this out for discussion.
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Post by hunter85 on Jun 30, 2023 19:01:15 GMT -5
James I read your post with some interest regarding the loss of accuracy in your .270. If it’s handling the other rounds it may be a moot point, however the .270s if shot a lot can result in a loss of accuracy. It used to be referred to as shooting the barrel out. I don’t remember the number of shots it might take but the high velocity of the .270 would eventually hurt the accuracy. I’ve read this can also happen to .357 caliber pistols. I just toss this out for discussion. My opinion is that it probably stopped shooting the power points good cause I believe the qc has tanked on cheaper ammo. Now it is all about profit margin and not the same load recipe. I’ve got a 7400 carbine in 30-06 that I bought probably 16 years ago that shot Remington core-Lok 165 gr that you could cover with a quarter at 100 yds. I would be hard pressed to say that the rifle has had 250 rounds sent down the tube. I bought 3 boxes a couple years back as I was running low on my old stock of ammo. After shooting and missing a hog at 80 yds 3 weeks ago I took the gun to the range and it is shooting so bad I can’t even get the scope zeroed like in the range of 7-8 inch three shot groups. Shot the last four rounds of my old stuff and was right at 1.25 inch group for 4 rounds. So now I will be on the hunt for something that shoots decent and when I find it I will buy every bit of it that is available where I got the box. |
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Post by james14 on Jun 30, 2023 22:11:30 GMT -5
Most likely the cause is related to an instance several years ago when I pulled the gun out of its hard case in preparation for a hunt the next weekend and it was covered in surface rust. Somehow (no idea how) moisture had gotten in the foam of the case. I cleaned it up fairly well, but it's been a bit wonky ever since. For instance, it's much more sensitive to barrel heat when I'm trying to sight it in. I could blame QC of the ammo, but I was working on a block of the Power Points that I had bought all with the same lot number a few years before. It shot sub-MOA before that incident. They were still good enough to hunt with, but I was halfway through the last box and decided I'd step it up in quality with the next purchase. The Hornady Outfitters with the tipped GMX have it back to MOA or just under...and they've performed flawlessly on everything shot with them so far. I can't find them anymore, or the Barnes TTSX, but I was able to get two boxes of the Hornady Superperformance with the tipped version of their new CX all copper bullet.
The gun is 23 years old but it hasn't been shot excessively. I actually only shoot it to sight-in and hunt with...seriously less than 200 rounds overall. I have other guns I shoot for fun...or misery if trying to get a ML sighted in.
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Post by averagehunter on Jul 5, 2023 6:59:52 GMT -5
I agree with the advice. Have killed a ton of deer with Remington core-lok and Winchester soft points. Furthest was a good buck at 175 yds (.243) and he went 30 yds. I’m using a .35 Remington this season. Love the .35 caliber bullets. I been playing with 357 mag and 350 Legend rifles - the 357 Mag will shoot well to 200 yards and I hunt with it when expecting shots inside 100 yds - have a pointy bullet that has some promise, I might stretch it if have a deer in a field cause I wouldn't expect an exit wound. The Legend will shoot well at 250 and I will use it to 250 if the opportunity presents itself. i Love my 350 Legend. Use it primarily hunting here. I use a hand loaded 165 grain Hornady FTX w/ Accurate No. 9 and a Magnum SRP. Since i've started using that particular load I've killed 3 deer and a boar hog with it. All three deer died w/in 40 yards of the shot and the hog dropped in its tracks. I am thinking of picking up some of the Lehigh bullets and testing those out this summer for grins. While i've yet to be able to take a deer with this >100 yards, I'm quite impressed with it and wouldn't hesitate to take this shot out to 200 or so. |
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Post by richm on Jul 6, 2023 7:15:10 GMT -5
Love the .35 caliber bullets. I been playing with 357 mag and 350 Legend rifles - the 357 Mag will shoot well to 200 yards and I hunt with it when expecting shots inside 100 yds - have a pointy bullet that has some promise, I might stretch it if have a deer in a field cause I wouldn't expect an exit wound. The Legend will shoot well at 250 and I will use it to 250 if the opportunity presents itself. i Love my 350 Legend. Use it primarily hunting here. I use a hand loaded 165 grain Hornady FTX w/ Accurate No. 9 and a Magnum SRP. Since i've started using that particular load I've killed 3 deer and a boar hog with it. All three deer died w/in 40 yards of the shot and the hog dropped in its tracks. I am thinking of picking up some of the Lehigh bullets and testing those out this summer for grins. While i've yet to be able to take a deer with this >100 yards, I'm quite impressed with it and wouldn't hesitate to take this shot out to 200 or so. Cool! I'm not running into too many other 350 Legend users. It's an easy to use caliber and throws a decent weight bullet. What are you getting for velocity? Have you shot for groups? Take a look at Fury bullets - they fly nice. I have yet to shoot something with them - getting 2,400-2,450 fps on 158 gr w Legend. I reload the 165 FTX bullets and am getting about 2,300 fps. Using Lil Gun and CCI small pistol primers (Win brass) - shot .58 at 100 yds and an inch at 200 - off a rest. 1.5 inch shooting upside down off a dirt berm at 250/260 yards (pretty sure can tighten that up some) - Measurements are outside to outside. Shot 1-gal jugs with these at 175 yards and couldn't catch a bullet - they exited to the left - would blow 2 jugs up and maybe nick a 3rd. Shot 2 deer, 1 DRT, 1 fell and got feet under it - run off spray painting a 75-100 yd trail. Not the shock & awe I was hoping for but the bullet leaves a big hole and it allows for stuff to flow out. Definitely a 200-250 yard gun. |
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Post by james14 on Jul 6, 2023 11:12:57 GMT -5
Take a look at Fury bullets - they fly nice. I have yet to shoot something with them - getting 2,400-2,450 fps on 158 gr w Legend. Fury bullets are great. I shoot them in my ML and they perform very well on deer - nice wound channel with an exit. A lot of guys with smokeless muzzleloaders are shooting them out of their guns with good results as well. |
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Post by averagehunter on Jul 6, 2023 14:17:16 GMT -5
i Love my 350 Legend. Use it primarily hunting here. I use a hand loaded 165 grain Hornady FTX w/ Accurate No. 9 and a Magnum SRP. Since i've started using that particular load I've killed 3 deer and a boar hog with it. All three deer died w/in 40 yards of the shot and the hog dropped in its tracks. I am thinking of picking up some of the Lehigh bullets and testing those out this summer for grins. While i've yet to be able to take a deer with this >100 yards, I'm quite impressed with it and wouldn't hesitate to take this shot out to 200 or so. Cool! I'm not running into too many other 350 Legend users. It's an easy to use caliber and throws a decent weight bullet. What are you getting for velocity? Have you shot for groups? Take a look at Fury bullets - they fly nice. I have yet to shoot something with them - getting 2,400-2,450 fps on 158 gr w Legend. I reload the 165 FTX bullets and am getting about 2,300 fps. Using Lil Gun and CCI small pistol primers (Win brass) - shot .58 at 100 yds and an inch at 200 - off a rest. 1.5 inch shooting upside down off a dirt berm at 250/260 yards (pretty sure can tighten that up some) - Measurements are outside to outside. Shot 1-gal jugs with these at 175 yards and couldn't catch a bullet - they exited to the left - would blow 2 jugs up and maybe nick a 3rd. Shot 2 deer, 1 DRT, 1 fell and got feet under it - run off spray painting a 75-100 yd trail. Not the shock & awe I was hoping for but the bullet leaves a big hole and it allows for stuff to flow out. Definitely a 200-250 yard gun. I'm getting about 2,300 as well. Have not seriously grouped it yet; need to get a good lead sled. I'm thinking about switching over to H110 though. What platform are you using? Mine is a home-built gas gun with an 18" barrel. |
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Post by richm on Jul 7, 2023 10:12:26 GMT -5
Take a look at Fury bullets - they fly nice. I have yet to shoot something with them - getting 2,400-2,450 fps on 158 gr w Legend. Fury bullets are great. I shoot them in my ML and they perform very well on deer - nice wound channel with an exit. A lot of guys with smokeless muzzleloaders are shooting them out of their guns with good results as well. I'm shooting 225 gr FTX bullets out of my ML w crush rib sabot over 110 gr triple seven. Shots touch at 100 yds off rest and I shot a FL buck last year at about 40 yds - hit a little bit back but bullet sent a spray out the exit and went into the ground behind him. 100 yds of decent trail later and there he was. Never did chrono the load |
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Post by richm on Jul 7, 2023 10:24:49 GMT -5
I'm getting about 2,300 as well. Have not seriously grouped it yet; need to get a good lead sled. I'm thinking about switching over to H110 though. What platform are you using? Mine is a home-built gas gun with an 18" barrel. Shooting Ruger American Ranch bolt - 16 inch barrel. Lil Gun supposedly produces less pressure than H110 - I really like it for both 357 mag rifle and the Legend. The cartridge was designed to be moderate velocity - if you look at most of the factory stuff, it's in the 2200-2300 fps range for 160-170 gr bullets. The 130 gr solids are about 2350. They print about the same as my hunting loads. I have 3 diff bullets that all hit about the same to 200 yds. Haven't played the load a 9mm handgun bullet and get it up over 3,000 fps game yet but it has its appeal. I shoot off a Caldwell gun holder setup or bipod when shooting groups, but not lead sled. |
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