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Post by bullfrog on Aug 13, 2023 20:16:32 GMT -5
Anyone know where any oscars are outside of extreme south Florida?
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Post by One Man Gang on Aug 14, 2023 7:25:57 GMT -5
I've caught them on Okeechobee but if you really want to get into them, hit the canals along 27 south of Belle Glade or alligator alley.
My dad and I were catching them some regularity with flyrods at Johnny's Basshole back in the 80s. We used to give the bank fisherman a bunch back at the ramp. One old black lady was thrilled to death exclaiming, "OOOH! Them's African bream! I'll take all you got!"
Also, the Mayan cichlids will be even more plentiful when if you come down. At times you can get hit on every cast.
I haven't been in years but I'm willing to bet the fishing is still great for them.
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Post by bullfrog on Aug 14, 2023 13:43:07 GMT -5
Oscars are one of my favorite aquarium fish. I also understand that they taste excellent. I am going to soon look into the legality of transporting them live. If I can do it, I’d like to bring several large adults from south Florida next spring to release in one of my deep ponds that is closed to other water sources. I’m curious to see if they can overwinter this far north in deep water. This winter I’m going to measure my water temperatures at various depths. I’d like an alternative to tilapia.
Last night I was looking at a map in Georgia that suggested there are populations of oscars established there.
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Post by Crkr 23 on Aug 14, 2023 14:12:47 GMT -5
Oscar is a spotted tilapia, looks like they can't be transported alive. Attachments:
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Post by Crkr 23 on Aug 14, 2023 14:14:09 GMT -5
You might could get that "special" permit.
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Post by flconch53 on Aug 14, 2023 14:15:44 GMT -5
They are not a spotted tilapia but no invasive can legally be transpor t ed alive
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Post by Crkr 23 on Aug 14, 2023 14:21:37 GMT -5
You're right, I reread it. I skipped over the part of where spotted tilapia are erroneously called Oscars.
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Post by bullfrog on Aug 14, 2023 18:23:07 GMT -5
You're right, I reread it. I skipped over the part of where spotted tilapia are erroneously called Oscars. You are correct to the extent that oscars are in the same overall family of fish that tilapia are in. Oscars are cichlids. Means they are mouth brooders. There’s an African branch and a South American branch of the family. Oscars are of the South American side, tilapia are from the African branch. The various other cichlids in south Florida are closer relatives of oscars than tilapia are. Oscars have a lot of personality. They’re like aquatic puppies in a home fish tank. They’ll beg for human attention from across the room. They’ll also rearrange a fish tank to their liking and will secretly move things back where they want them when no human is looking if a human changes things in the tank.
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Post by tonyroma on Aug 14, 2023 20:07:56 GMT -5
Let’s roll Bullfrog, I’ll take the hit if FWC gets nosey. Plus Josh has our back.
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Post by richm on Aug 15, 2023 13:51:56 GMT -5
I had an oscar in a tank and he did pretty good. Hungry lil thing.
Also had a green sunfish I caught - that thing lived 10 yrs with me and then my cousin took it and had it for a while. Musta caught & released that thing 1,000 times.
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Post by tampaspicer on Aug 16, 2023 9:31:37 GMT -5
There are a bunch of cichlids in the ditches of Clair Mel in Tampa. We use to catch them all the time behind the house when I was growing up. Last time I drove through there you could still access the ditches.
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Post by bullfrog on Jul 28, 2024 23:37:38 GMT -5
I forgot to measure my water temps this past winter. Going to try to remember to this coming winter.
As far as transporting them, I doubt its illegal to transport them. They’re legal aquarium fish. I can go buy one at any chain fish store. Its not illegal to drive them home from the pet store.
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Post by lemaymiami on Jul 29, 2024 6:57:10 GMT -5
We catch and release a ton of oscars locally while fly fishing or using light spinning gear with small minnow plugs for peacock bass locally- some of them get pretty big (up to well over a pound) - and they do put up a good fight. Locally, I've been told that the Mayan cichlid is the preferred table fare and that oscars don't cook up very well at all, even though they certainly seem to have much more meat on them than the Mayans - but haven't tried either specie myself. All of our canal fishing is west of Ft. Lauderdale so we're talking south Florida - but we rarely find them at all in any areas where they've been spraying herbicides for weed control. The difference between the canals west of US 27 and urban canals that have been sprayed is dramatic... Here's a pic or two of each specie locally... double header - oscar on the left - peacock on the right, when the conditions are right every cast gets bit in these canals on the edge of the Everglades... this medium sized oscar ate a popping bug one more exotic - believe this is a "jaguar guapote" Funny thing -now that we're solidly in the wet season - canal fishing isn't anything to write home about - way too much water in the canals scatter the fish. Once we're back in the dry season - as water levels fall things get really good (if we can avoid a hurricane this year..). That business of folks catching and transporting fish (whether legal or not) is probably why we now have peacocks over near Naples in places where they were never stocked at all. The peacock bass is the only exotic that was sanctioned by the state for stocking in the early eighties - and that was only in the Miami area - they's expanded their range since then...
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Post by bridgeman213 on Jul 30, 2024 8:41:48 GMT -5
Are the bullseye snake heads in the same general area as the peacocks, oscars and clowns? The ones up north around the Potomac were said to be good eats. I always had great access to walleye before I retired and migrated south. I've never caught a peacock or any if the other invasive exotics, would be a different species added to the list
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2024 18:26:38 GMT -5
Had a friend that had Oscars. Got tired of them and cooked them. Said they were good
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Post by Mynki on Sept 10, 2024 6:43:57 GMT -5
You're right, I reread it. I skipped over the part of where spotted tilapia are erroneously called Oscars. You are correct to the extent that oscars are in the same overall family of fish that tilapia are in. Oscars are cichlids. Means they are mouth brooders. There’s an African branch and a South American branch of the family. Oscars are of the South American side, tilapia are from the African branch. The various other cichlids in south Florida are closer relatives of oscars than tilapia are. Oscars have a lot of personality. They’re like aquatic puppies in a home fish tank. They’ll beg for human attention from across the room. They’ll also rearrange a fish tank to their liking and will secretly move things back where they want them when no human is looking if a human changes things in the tank. Oscars are Cichlids fro South America. But they're not mouth brooders. They're pretty typical egg laying Cichlids. I've bred them in the aquarium a few times. Nowadays the fish keeping industry produces them in all kinds of different colours. And there are even hideous long finned versions in the hobby! They've even been hybridised with ther species. You can see a few here :- www.alwayspets.com/s/oscar-fish-colors-f36abd9a7d474a3eBut when released into the wild these fish will always eventually revert back to their wild type in a few generations. They die off regularly in Florida due to cold snaps.
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Post by Mynki on Sept 10, 2024 6:46:43 GMT -5
one more exotic - believe this is a "jaguar guapote" Jaguar Guapote aka Jaguar Cichlid aka Parachromis managuensis 100%. In the aquarium, these things make Oscars look like . They grow larger and are more territorial. Both make pretty good eating.
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Post by Mynki on Sept 10, 2024 6:54:20 GMT -5
Mayans are found in massive numbers in the canals on the western side of I41. Big Cypress is full of them. You often see the males in spawning colours with bright red chests. You'll also see pits in which the parents have spawned and are often protecting young fry. I've also caught them in the brackish Lake Placid and have read that they can adapt to full saltwater condition. They're one really tough species which is why there's so many of them.
I've also caught a few Black Acara here which are another small type of South American Cichlid.
Further East the oscar populations seem to start. You can find big shoals of them too. Lots of them in the canals next to the loop road in dry season. I've only ever seen a couple of Jaguar Cichlids here though.
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Post by Crkr 23 on Sept 10, 2024 8:18:34 GMT -5
Lake Placid FL, brackish?
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Post by Mynki on Sept 10, 2024 8:52:16 GMT -5
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Post by Crkr 23 on Sept 10, 2024 9:01:44 GMT -5
👍, the freshwater lake in Highlands county came to mind. It's a good day, I learned something.
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Post by tampaspicer on Sept 10, 2024 16:00:52 GMT -5
We use to catch some type of Cichlids in the ditches of the neighborhood I grew up in Tampa.
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Post by Mynki on Sept 11, 2024 11:17:46 GMT -5
A few additional items... In my area, down here in south Florida the canals we fish along edge of the 'glades, west of Ft. Lauderdale... the oscars get much bigger (and more common, for comparison -think largest crappie...) than those few jaguar guapotes we catch and release. Locals that fish those canals for eating fish say that the Mayans are much better eating than the oscars (but the oscars look to have much more meat on each side than the mayan cichlids..) go figure... Lastly, the mayans are so widely distributed in the freshwater parts of the backcountry = that I know anglers who make a point of working hardbaits (topwater, subsurface...) in mayan colors for snook, tarpon, and other species - particularly in places where largemouth bass are present in the same waters as those "saltwater" species... In other words, they've become a definite forage specie, well accepted by the predators in those areas... Just nothing like the 'glades... Have you ever come across Midas Cichlids (Amphilophus citrinellus ) Bob? I've seen them caught in Youtube videos in Florida, but never come across one myself. I believe they're found closer to Miami. According to Wikipedia, this is a currently list of known invasive fish in the sunshine state. Including four different types of 'pleco' catfish. Acanthogobius flavimanus (Yellowfin goby) Amphilophus citrinellus (Midas cichlid) Astronotus ocellatus (Oscar) Belonesox belizanus (Pike killifish) Channa aurolineata (Goldline snakehead) Chitala ornata (Clown featherback) Cichla ocellaris (Butterfly peacock bass) Cichlasoma bimaculatum (Black acara) Clarias batrachus (Walking catfish) Ctenopharyngodon idella (Grass carp) Cyprinus carpio (Eurasian carp) Hemichromis letourneuxi (African jewelfish) Herichthys cyanoguttatus (Texas cichlid) Heros severus (Banded cichlid) Heterotilapia buttikoferi (Zebra tilapia) Hoplosternum littorale (Brown hoplo) Hypostomus plecostomus (Suckermouth catfish) Ictalurus furcatus (Blue catfish) Mayaheros urophthalmus (Mayan cichlid) Monopterus albus (Asian swamp eel) Oreochromis aureus (Blue tilapia) Oreochromis mossambicus (Mozambique tilapia) Oreochromis niloticus (Nile tilapia) Parachromis managuensis (Jaguar cichlid) Pterois miles (Common lionfish) Pterois volitans (Red lionfish) Pelmatolapia mariae (Spotted tilapia) Pterygoplichthys disjunctivus (Vermiculated sailfin catfish) Pterygoplichthys multiradiatus (Orinoco sailfin catfish) Pterygoplichthys pardalis (Amazon sailfin catfish) Pylodictis olivaris (Flathead catfish) Sarotherodon melanotheron (Blackchin tilapia)
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Post by lemaymiami on Sept 12, 2024 6:55:34 GMT -5
As usual - bad info on Wiki... The peacock bass was deliberately introduced here in the very early eighties or late seventies (with permission from from the predecessor to the current FWC). The idea was that south Florida, particularly in Dade county (earlier name it's currently Miami-Dade county...) in an effort to introduce a predator to control all the small invasives in every canal.. It was believed that the peacock could not survive winters outside of that area and the program was very successful and also provided an addtional game fish for anglers... What was not anticipated is that waters to the north (Broward and Palm Beach counties) in urban areas might also allow populations to exist... Like I said, the peacock bass is not an "invasive" at all - it was sanctioned from the first... and carefully monitored. An additional specie was also introduced legally some years ago - the grass carp - meant to aid in control of weed growth in local canals since they're vegetarians and grow large it was thought that they'd greatly reduce weed growth. I have no idea whether that program was a succcess... I've only caught one clown knifefish, and it was on a lure. Not many of them around but they are an outstanding gamefish and my customers would be well pleased with any one they encountered. Most that do fish them use live bait. If I could figure out a way to catch them on flies - I'd have a lot of bookings for them locally -particularly in Lake Ida or Lake Norman here in Broward county... Here's a pic of the only one I've encountered, well over ten pounds. Locals call them "featherbacks" . If you have a pic of that Midas Cichlid, I'll be able to tell you if we've ever come across one. Once it cools off a bit each year (end of this month all the way until next May) there will be a lot of days when catching (and releasing) 100 exotics using lures or flies in a five hour trip is a real possibility and many of them are ones you only see every now and then..
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Post by conchydong on Sept 12, 2024 8:19:55 GMT -5
As usual - bad info on Wiki... The peacock bass was deliberately introduced here in the very early eighties or late seventies (with permission from from the predecessor to the current FWC). The idea was that south Florida, particularly in Dade county (earlier name it's currently Miami-Dade county...) in an effort to introduce a predator to control all the small invasives in every canal.. It was believed that the peacock could not survive winters outside of that area and the program was very successful and also provided an addtional game fish for anglers... What was not anticipated is that waters to the north (Broward and Palm Beach counties) in urban areas might also allow populations to exist... Like I said, the peacock bass is not an "invasive" at all - it was sanctioned from the first... and carefully monitored. An additional specie was also introduced legally some years ago - the grass carp - meant to aid in control of weed growth in local canals since they're vegetarians and grow large it was thought that they'd greatly reduce weed growth. I have no idea whether that program was a succcess... I've only caught one clown knifefish, and it was on a lure. Not many of them around but they are an outstanding gamefish and my customers would be well pleased with any one they encountered. Most that do fish them use live bait. If I could figure out a way to catch them on flies - I'd have a lot of bookings for them locally -particularly in Lake Ida or Lake Norman here in Broward county... Here's a pic of the only one I've encountered, well over ten pounds. Locals call them "featherbacks" . If you have a pic of that Midas Cichlid, I'll be able to tell you if we've ever come across one. Once it cools off a bit each year (end of this month all the way until next May) there will be a lot of days when catching (and releasing) 100 exotics using lures or flies in a five hour trip is a real possibility and many of them are ones you only see every now and then.. Bob, I love your posts but I disagree (with the exception of Peacocks) releasing the non-natives back into the waters (alive). I realize your customers may enjoy catching them but you know what happens to the native species when invasives take over.
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Post by Mynki on Sept 12, 2024 9:11:18 GMT -5
As usual - bad info on Wiki... The peacock bass was deliberately introduced here in the very early eighties or late seventies (with permission from from the predecessor to the current FWC). The idea was that south Florida, particularly in Dade county (earlier name it's currently Miami-Dade county...) in an effort to introduce a predator to control all the small invasives in every canal.. It was believed that the peacock could not survive winters outside of that area and the program was very successful and also provided an addtional game fish for anglers... What was not anticipated is that waters to the north (Broward and Palm Beach counties) in urban areas might also allow populations to exist... Like I said, the peacock bass is not an "invasive" at all - it was sanctioned from the first... and carefully monitored. An additional specie was also introduced legally some years ago - the grass carp - meant to aid in control of weed growth in local canals since they're vegetarians and grow large it was thought that they'd greatly reduce weed growth. I have no idea whether that program was a succcess... I've only caught one clown knifefish, and it was on a lure. Not many of them around but they are an outstanding gamefish and my customers would be well pleased with any one they encountered. Most that do fish them use live bait. If I could figure out a way to catch them on flies - I'd have a lot of bookings for them locally -particularly in Lake Ida or Lake Norman here in Broward county... Here's a pic of the only one I've encountered, well over ten pounds. Locals call them "featherbacks" . If you have a pic of that Midas Cichlid, I'll be able to tell you if we've ever come across one. Once it cools off a bit each year (end of this month all the way until next May) there will be a lot of days when catching (and releasing) 100 exotics using lures or flies in a five hour trip is a real possibility and many of them are ones you only see every now and then.. I wouldn't say it's bad info per se. The definition of 'invasive species ' doesn't really change if it's a government sanctioned introduction or a moron deliberately releasing the inhabitants of their fish tank. The end result as you've seen, can be just the same. You'll find many instances of governments making similar mistakes around the globe when things didn't turn out as planned. What makes me laugh is how those invasives with sporting value seem to be protected rather than eradicated.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2024 15:12:47 GMT -5
Teddy Roosevelt was instrumental in introducing common carp into American waters. Was it a mistake if it fed our citizens when our fish stocks were depleted? It seems carp can exist with game fish
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Post by Mynki on Sept 19, 2024 4:26:08 GMT -5
If you have a pic of that Midas Cichlid, I'll be able to tell you if we've ever come across one. Once it cools off a bit each year (end of this month all the way until next May) there will be a lot of days when catching (and releasing) 100 exotics using lures or flies in a five hour trip is a real possibility and many of them are ones you only see every now and then.. Sorry Bob, I missed this. This is a Midas Cichlid Amphilophus citrinellus
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Post by Mynki on Sept 19, 2024 4:29:01 GMT -5
Teddy Roosevelt was instrumental in introducing common carp into American waters. Was it a mistake if it fed our citizens when our fish stocks were depleted? It seems carp can exist with game fish Back then people didn't understand the complications and potential financial impacts of invasive species. Do Americans actually eat carp though? I've tried it in Prague in the Czech Republic where it's quite popular there and in other East European countries. It's edible, but not particularly good. Incidentally, they're found throughout Western Europe as the Romans introduced them as food fishes also. Depending on who you believe...
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Post by tonyroma on Sept 19, 2024 11:19:31 GMT -5
I know of nobody who would even consider eating a carp.
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