Something quite shabby about this...............

They created a market and happy customers.

I can’t complain about that. They did good business. Sold a hunt, provided a hunt, gave the folks what they wanted, did taxidermy for the folks.

Wonder what got them caught? Dna analysis started by someone trying to verify the birds for the “grand slam”?

Too bad they didnt catch actual osceola turkeys and breed em. The next guys will im sure. Catch em as poults and go from there. Couple years and yer selling $10k turkey hunts to folks.

Hunting has been made into a market item. We got camo, calls, decoyrs, blinds, stands, hunts, trophy hunts, diy hunts, taxidermy, preference points, etc, etc. add in specific guns and calibers and backpack hunts, you’ll get dizzy. What about ebikes and airboats and mud motors…. It’s an industry for sure. All on the back of disillusioned folks who dont know any better.

Then we have the purist complaining.

I say these guys were providing a service.

Money brings out the worst in people.

I think the issue is that the clients didn't know that they were participating in a "canned" hunt. Also I think it's illegal to release pen raised turkeys into the wild because they could possibly carry diseases that could affect the wild population.

I’m somewhat sympathetic to this argument. Don’t get me wrong, its crappy to sell canned hunts as a free-ranged hunt. But I suspect that’s much of the guide industry. I looked at their website and they sell exotic hunts. Does someone really believe that an outfitter that sells African and Asian species hunts in Florida is magically selling real turkey hunts when everything else is manufactured?

I’d rather them spend the efforts busting private land hunters violating the bag limits. (Which I’m aware they’ve busted a few prolific bag limit violators recently).

100% wild free range prairie dog hunts on my .04 acres in downtown miami, pellet guns will be supplied. 2750.00 per day, 12 dog limit. 200.00 per rodent after 12. cleaning and quartering available for extra charge as well as taxidermy. these hunts fill up fast , 1500.00 deposit cash or zelle.

Nope, they were advertising a hunt for a specific breed of turkey, and then knowingly lying to customers. I got no problem with any of it, except the lying part, and charging for the hunt. They put their clients on birds that were not what they claimed, and cheated them out of the fee.

I never have really cared about killing turkeys. I've shot a few Easterns in GA and a couple Osceola's here in FL, but would rather go deer hunting anytime. And rather fish offshore than either of the other two.

TRT, My one of my places is 1/4 mile north of the Osceola/Eastern border. Technically per the NWTF we only have Easterns. We have Easterns/Osceolas/and Hybrids that have traits of both. I am not sure you could sell a hybrid hunt though. We shoot them all if they come in and they all taste the same!

They added value and profit from it. OConnor was whoring his sheep slam in the 70s.

That's already been done in the Southwest with the Coues deer. People are paying big money to kill a 100in deer.

Too many people with too much disposable income.

What BULLFROG said deserves some thoughtful consideration.

And yes......I happen to find the trophy thing odd......

But......if the added value of whatever it is causes more effort to go into keeping open spaces then it's not such a bad thing. Every extra dollar that a piece of land can generate helps to keep it from becoming a place to "Plant Yankees".......

In a way, this discussion has evolved to something analogous to the discussion we often have when doing farm tours for environmental groups where invariably the question of animals being hunted on the land is asked and how that fits in with conservation. When it gets laid out that the extra dollars from the hunt lease allow us to manage less intensively for fiber and that that different sort of management benefits ALL THE OTHER WILDLIFE.........eyes open a little and you can feel the anti-hunting emotion abate some.

We're best served by thinking these things through rationally.

Which does not in any way mean that I approve of the fraud perpetuated, because, if you think about it, the fraud does damage to the whole process just laid out.


 

I don't disagree, Ben, BUT, whenever money is inserted into the equation you can be certain there will be exploitation and corrupt behavior. Private hunting ranches might flourish and I'm happy for them. I would however question the TRUE value to the public land hunter. Preserving public land is a wonderful idea but it does no good if you can't use it adequately.

I have about 600,000 acres I can roam around in the Everglades. With every passing year I get shut out a few more days than the previous year. Too much rain, too little rain, a fire, closed boat ramps, ramps with limited access, locked gates because of a lease "oversight" by the WMD (bombing range)... etc... etc... etc... the excuse are endless. I won't even get into the lack of more, vast areas either. Although a couple thousand acres
scattered here and there are nice, they do little unless you're into wildlife viewing. Parcels like that are a dead head for wildlife and even this corridor everyone thinks will work does too little, too late. Eventually it will all fail to sustain.

Forgive me for my distrust of my government overlords who control these wild lands. When was the last time the greedy political fools in power actually did something that honestly helped out the habitat, hunters and fishers in FL on a meaningful scale? Over the past 35 years, they've pretty much failed the Florida sportsmen, and that goes for fishing as much as hunting.

Having said this, I'm not naive enough to not realize things are never going back to the way they were, so I will find a work around to finish out my remaining days of hunting and fishing.

Fortunately for me, I saw the abundance Florida once provided. Now I'm on the backside of life watching us lose. At some point, hunters simply won't matter. They'll be relegated to nuisance status and told to go pay to hunt somewhere. Even the trees, ranches, and farms will begin to hold menial value as the insidious importance of capturing sunlight, water, or wind on a "farm" will outweigh the need (or more importantly, any political will) to grow food or actually preserve habitat. At least on our current trajectory.
Lastly, let's not forget the nearsighted failures of single species management, or the nonsensical way they allow the proliferation of invasive species! These folks will literally destroy the state's ecosystem and forbid human access in order to do nothing and curry favor with the screw balls whining about hunting and the death of a animal.


I agree we need to preserve habitat and mitigate its destruction. I may be wrong here (highly doubtful) but I just don't see the rosy ending some of us envision. Not in this state, where politics override sound science, and unbridled greed makes millionaires overnight. In the end, the highest bidder will ultimately win, every time, and we ain't doing much bidding anymore.

One Man Gang this is the best thing I have read on this forum in a long time. What you have said is what I also feel about the public land hunting. Especially about not being able to use the lands adequately for hunting. Just today I was going to look at a state forest that I have never been on. Its only 5k acres so I thought I would take a quit look. Call to get a gate code and get a recording that says we will call you back as soon as possible. Make another call and find out that it and many other WMAs are being closed because of the hurricane. This WMA is in St. Johns County and will not see any affects from the hurricane until late Thursday night. I understand that the state needs time to close these areas, but we never use to have to put up with the state closing these areas down until something actually happened. But the worst thing to me is all the quota hunts. Quota hunts use to be special hunts but now they are the norm. Don't know why FWC tries to recruit more hunters when they can't provide enough public land deer hunts as it is. We have millions of acres of public land but nowhere to hunt unless you live close to a few areas that are not quota hunts. Yes, you are lucky to have the everglades even if it's not what it once was.