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Post by johnnybandit on Aug 22, 2024 0:20:54 GMT -5
Ok, I will bite. Please cite a credible source regarding the 350 room lodge. Credible is the key word. A disc golf course, is a frisbee golf course. But I will let you slide on being ignorant. I await your credible answer. If it will please the court, let the record show that JB cannot answer the question. Or will not. Since you are too lazy to read... It takes Johnny a while to provide an answer...
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Post by whitebacon on Aug 22, 2024 0:30:49 GMT -5
Ok, I will bite. Please cite a credible source regarding the 350 room lodge. Credible is the key word. A disc golf course, is a frisbee golf course. But I will let you slide on being ignorant. I await your credible answer.
You calling a liberal... All I can do is laugh....
And I could give a shit is Cad chastises me or not... will not be the first time... But it is kind of hard to chastise someone for telling the truth with a straight face..
As for Credible Proof..... Pete... Cyclist..... Already posted it.... And for the record.... I know you can read.... but you did not read... Because if you had... you would have seen the credible proof... in the form of documents from the state of Florida... In the form of Unit Management Plan Amendments
But since you will not read...... I will lay it out for you.... Pete posted this link:
When you click on that link you will find the following links: Jonathan Dickinson State Park in Stuart Dr. Von D. Mizell-Eula Johnson State Park in Fort Lauderdale Hillsborough River State Park in Tampa Oleta River State Park in Miami Honeymoon Island State Park in Clearwater Anastasia State Park in St. Augustine Camp Helen State Park in Panama City Topsail Hill Preserve and Grayton Beach State Parks in Santa Rosa Beach
When you click on any of those links... you will see links for the proposed Unit Management Plan Amendments from the state of Florida..
And since you will not read... I will post the two Unit Management Plan Amendments that include 350 room lodges...
Anastasia Island:
Anastasia State Park Unit Management Plan Amendment INTRODUCTION In support of Florida’s Great Outdoors Initiative, the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) is working to enhance public access, recreation, and lodging at state parks– reinforcing the state’s dedication to conservation, the outdoor recreation economy, and Floridians quality of life. Land use planning and park improvement decisions are based on the dual responsibilities of DEP’s Division of Recreation and Parks. These responsibilities are to preserve Florida’s natural landscapes, heritage sites, and to provide and promote outdoor recreation opportunities for Florida’s citizens and visitors. Over time, park-specific management plan amendments are implemented to accommodate park-specific needs in real time to boundary changes and land acquisitions, impacts from natural forces like hurricanes and severe weather, and to prioritize additional opportunities for outdoor recreation and other amenities as needed. PLAN AMENDMENT Overview This amendment to the current Acquisition and Restoration Council-approved unit management plan for Anastasia State Park includes the addition of overnight and recreation facilities. These proposals are organized and presented by use area. Design details and precise location of proposed facilities will be determined and developed according to conceptual land use elements described below and are contingent on funding and concession agreements. Best Practices All improvements shall employ best practices utilized by park systems across the country, ensuring that all facilities, functions, and amenities are welcoming and reflective of Florida’s heritage, harmonious with park-specific resources, compatible with native lands and plants, aesthetically fitting within surrounding landscapes, and are functional. CONCEPTUAL LAND USE PLAN Anastasia Lodge Objective: Expand overnight accommodations beyond traditional camping. Actions: • Design and develop a park lodge. Development of a park lodge, with up to 350-room capacity, is proposed in the southern portion of the park within functional vicinity of the Beach Access Area. This general location is east of the campground and south of the beach access parking where a borrow pit that was dug prior to park acquisition offers a potentially viable site for a portion of the lodge and associated infrastructure. Viewshed from the lodge would include maritime hammock, dune ridges, and Atlantic beach. Design considerations will further include separation from the campground to ensure distinct recreational experiences. Anastasia State Park Unit Management Plan Amendment Considerations: • These proposals entail evaluation and avoidance of critical wildlife habitat that is distributed throughout portions of Anastasia State Park. Salt Run Use Area Objective: Introduce new recreation facilities. Actions: • Design and develop pickleball courts. • Design and develop a disc golf course. Construction of up to four pickleball courts and a disc golf course in the general area east of the main park drive – adjacent to the north side of the Salt Run Use Area – is proposed. Users may utilize the existing parking associated with the Salt Run Use Area, which is currently used primarily by paddlers. The new user group may park on the north end of this existing parking area, while paddlers may typically park toward the south. If necessary, parking may be expanded. An existing restroom adjacent to the parking area may be considered for upgrade or expansion as necessary to
Topsail Hill Preserve State Park Unit Management Plan Amendment INTRODUCTION In support of Florida’s Great Outdoors Initiative, the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) is working to enhance public access, recreation, and lodging at state parks– reinforcing the state’s dedication to conservation, the outdoor recreation economy, and Floridians quality of life. Land use planning and park improvement decisions are based on the dual responsibilities of DEP’s Division of Recreation and Parks. These responsibilities are to preserve Florida’s natural landscapes, heritage sites, and to provide and promote outdoor recreation opportunities for Florida’s citizens and visitors. Over time, park-specific management plan amendments are implemented to accommodate park-specific needs in real time to boundary changes and land acquisitions, impacts from natural forces like hurricanes and severe weather, and to prioritize additional opportunities for outdoor recreation and other amenities as needed. PLAN AMENDMENT Overview This amendment to the current Acquisition and Restoration Council-approved unit management plan for Topsail Hill Preserve State Park includes the addition of overnight and recreation facilities. These proposals are organized and presented by use area. Design details and precise location of proposed facilities will be determined and developed according to conceptual land use elements described below and are contingent on funding and concession agreements. Best Practices All improvements shall employ best practices utilized by park systems across the country, ensuring that all facilities, functions, and amenities are welcoming and reflective of Florida’s heritage, harmonious with park-specific resources, compatible with native lands and plants, aesthetically fitting within surrounding landscapes, and are functional. CONCEPTUAL LAND USE PLAN Overnight Accommodations Area Objective: Expand/diversify overnight accommodations. Actions: • Design and develop a park lodge. Two alternative concepts are proposed for the proposed lodge: Alternative A Alternative A is to construct a lodge, with up to 350-room capacity, southwest of the camping area. This location is consistent with the general location of existing overnight facilities and avoids critical habitat nearer the Gulf of Mexico while offering convenient proximity to the existing tram route for beach access. Topsail Hill Preserve State Park Unit Management Plan Amendment Alternative B Alternative B entails substantial redesign of the campground, original cabin/bungalow area (east of the newer cabin area), and support area. Construction of the proposed lodge within the existing footprint of development would avoid critical habitat and minimize impact to general habitat while maximizing overnight capacity. Redesign of the subject area would allow for landscape beautification and enhanced separation of distinct types of recreational uses and structures. Further evaluation is required to determine the necessary acreages and square footage of the various facilities. Considerations: • Sensitivity to the unit’s classification as a preserve will be a priority, focusing proposed improvements within and/or adjacent to existing areas of park development and in avoidance of critical habitat. Pickleball Courts Objective: Introduce new recreation facilities. Action: • Design and develop pickleball courts. Construction of up to four pickleball courts is proposed within a ruderal area just southeast of the entrance station. This location is in proximity to both overnight and day-use visitors. Parking and restroom facilities are provided at the nearby tram parking area. Disc Golf Course Objective: Introduce new recreation facilities. Action: • Design and develop one disc golf course. Construction of a disc golf course is proposed in an underutilized area south of the park cabins. The course will be readily available to overnight visitors and accessible to day-use visitors via the tram path. Access to the course will correspond to a tram stop. Considerations: • The proposed course must avoid dune habitat and wetlands while offering a scenic experience through the flatwoods and hammock environments of the park
Remind me not to hire you, on ANY land use issues. Your passion is noted. The reason there are multiple scenarios cited, is that it is an imaginary, whimsical group of scenarios. You stick to your guns though.
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Post by johnnybandit on Aug 22, 2024 0:46:07 GMT -5
You calling a liberal... All I can do is laugh....
And I could give a shit is Cad chastises me or not... will not be the first time... But it is kind of hard to chastise someone for telling the truth with a straight face..
As for Credible Proof..... Pete... Cyclist..... Already posted it.... And for the record.... I know you can read.... but you did not read... Because if you had... you would have seen the credible proof... in the form of documents from the state of Florida... In the form of Unit Management Plan Amendments
But since you will not read...... I will lay it out for you.... Pete posted this link:
When you click on that link you will find the following links: Jonathan Dickinson State Park in Stuart Dr. Von D. Mizell-Eula Johnson State Park in Fort Lauderdale Hillsborough River State Park in Tampa Oleta River State Park in Miami Honeymoon Island State Park in Clearwater Anastasia State Park in St. Augustine Camp Helen State Park in Panama City Topsail Hill Preserve and Grayton Beach State Parks in Santa Rosa Beach
When you click on any of those links... you will see links for the proposed Unit Management Plan Amendments from the state of Florida..
And since you will not read... I will post the two Unit Management Plan Amendments that include 350 room lodges...
Anastasia Island:
Anastasia State Park Unit Management Plan Amendment INTRODUCTION In support of Florida’s Great Outdoors Initiative, the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) is working to enhance public access, recreation, and lodging at state parks– reinforcing the state’s dedication to conservation, the outdoor recreation economy, and Floridians quality of life. Land use planning and park improvement decisions are based on the dual responsibilities of DEP’s Division of Recreation and Parks. These responsibilities are to preserve Florida’s natural landscapes, heritage sites, and to provide and promote outdoor recreation opportunities for Florida’s citizens and visitors. Over time, park-specific management plan amendments are implemented to accommodate park-specific needs in real time to boundary changes and land acquisitions, impacts from natural forces like hurricanes and severe weather, and to prioritize additional opportunities for outdoor recreation and other amenities as needed. PLAN AMENDMENT Overview This amendment to the current Acquisition and Restoration Council-approved unit management plan for Anastasia State Park includes the addition of overnight and recreation facilities. These proposals are organized and presented by use area. Design details and precise location of proposed facilities will be determined and developed according to conceptual land use elements described below and are contingent on funding and concession agreements. Best Practices All improvements shall employ best practices utilized by park systems across the country, ensuring that all facilities, functions, and amenities are welcoming and reflective of Florida’s heritage, harmonious with park-specific resources, compatible with native lands and plants, aesthetically fitting within surrounding landscapes, and are functional. CONCEPTUAL LAND USE PLAN Anastasia Lodge Objective: Expand overnight accommodations beyond traditional camping. Actions: • Design and develop a park lodge. Development of a park lodge, with up to 350-room capacity, is proposed in the southern portion of the park within functional vicinity of the Beach Access Area. This general location is east of the campground and south of the beach access parking where a borrow pit that was dug prior to park acquisition offers a potentially viable site for a portion of the lodge and associated infrastructure. Viewshed from the lodge would include maritime hammock, dune ridges, and Atlantic beach. Design considerations will further include separation from the campground to ensure distinct recreational experiences. Anastasia State Park Unit Management Plan Amendment Considerations: • These proposals entail evaluation and avoidance of critical wildlife habitat that is distributed throughout portions of Anastasia State Park. Salt Run Use Area Objective: Introduce new recreation facilities. Actions: • Design and develop pickleball courts. • Design and develop a disc golf course. Construction of up to four pickleball courts and a disc golf course in the general area east of the main park drive – adjacent to the north side of the Salt Run Use Area – is proposed. Users may utilize the existing parking associated with the Salt Run Use Area, which is currently used primarily by paddlers. The new user group may park on the north end of this existing parking area, while paddlers may typically park toward the south. If necessary, parking may be expanded. An existing restroom adjacent to the parking area may be considered for upgrade or expansion as necessary to
Topsail Hill Preserve State Park Unit Management Plan Amendment INTRODUCTION In support of Florida’s Great Outdoors Initiative, the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) is working to enhance public access, recreation, and lodging at state parks– reinforcing the state’s dedication to conservation, the outdoor recreation economy, and Floridians quality of life. Land use planning and park improvement decisions are based on the dual responsibilities of DEP’s Division of Recreation and Parks. These responsibilities are to preserve Florida’s natural landscapes, heritage sites, and to provide and promote outdoor recreation opportunities for Florida’s citizens and visitors. Over time, park-specific management plan amendments are implemented to accommodate park-specific needs in real time to boundary changes and land acquisitions, impacts from natural forces like hurricanes and severe weather, and to prioritize additional opportunities for outdoor recreation and other amenities as needed. PLAN AMENDMENT Overview This amendment to the current Acquisition and Restoration Council-approved unit management plan for Topsail Hill Preserve State Park includes the addition of overnight and recreation facilities. These proposals are organized and presented by use area. Design details and precise location of proposed facilities will be determined and developed according to conceptual land use elements described below and are contingent on funding and concession agreements. Best Practices All improvements shall employ best practices utilized by park systems across the country, ensuring that all facilities, functions, and amenities are welcoming and reflective of Florida’s heritage, harmonious with park-specific resources, compatible with native lands and plants, aesthetically fitting within surrounding landscapes, and are functional. CONCEPTUAL LAND USE PLAN Overnight Accommodations Area Objective: Expand/diversify overnight accommodations. Actions: • Design and develop a park lodge. Two alternative concepts are proposed for the proposed lodge: Alternative A Alternative A is to construct a lodge, with up to 350-room capacity, southwest of the camping area. This location is consistent with the general location of existing overnight facilities and avoids critical habitat nearer the Gulf of Mexico while offering convenient proximity to the existing tram route for beach access. Topsail Hill Preserve State Park Unit Management Plan Amendment Alternative B Alternative B entails substantial redesign of the campground, original cabin/bungalow area (east of the newer cabin area), and support area. Construction of the proposed lodge within the existing footprint of development would avoid critical habitat and minimize impact to general habitat while maximizing overnight capacity. Redesign of the subject area would allow for landscape beautification and enhanced separation of distinct types of recreational uses and structures. Further evaluation is required to determine the necessary acreages and square footage of the various facilities. Considerations: • Sensitivity to the unit’s classification as a preserve will be a priority, focusing proposed improvements within and/or adjacent to existing areas of park development and in avoidance of critical habitat. Pickleball Courts Objective: Introduce new recreation facilities. Action: • Design and develop pickleball courts. Construction of up to four pickleball courts is proposed within a ruderal area just southeast of the entrance station. This location is in proximity to both overnight and day-use visitors. Parking and restroom facilities are provided at the nearby tram parking area. Disc Golf Course Objective: Introduce new recreation facilities. Action: • Design and develop one disc golf course. Construction of a disc golf course is proposed in an underutilized area south of the park cabins. The course will be readily available to overnight visitors and accessible to day-use visitors via the tram path. Access to the course will correspond to a tram stop. Considerations: • The proposed course must avoid dune habitat and wetlands while offering a scenic experience through the flatwoods and hammock environments of the park
Remind me not to hire you, on ANY land use issues. Your passion is noted. The reason there are multiple scenarios cited, is that it is an imaginary, whimsical group of scenarios. You stick to your guns though. LOL Maybe... But it is proposed...... And I ain't looking for a job... In any case, my gut says you and I would butt heads if we worked together on a project...
Better off just to be friends and bust each others chops online... .
In any case... if there is a tenth of one percent of them putting lodges on state parks I will fight it....
On a side note.... I never knew there was such a serious shortage of pickle ball courts or disk golf courses...
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Post by whitebacon on Aug 22, 2024 0:55:04 GMT -5
Remind me not to hire you, on ANY land use issues. Your passion is noted. The reason there are multiple scenarios cited, is that it is an imaginary, whimsical group of scenarios. You stick to your guns though. LOL Maybe... But it is proposed...... And I ain't looking for a job... In any case, my gut says you and I would butt heads if we worked together on a project...
Better off just to be friends and bust each others chops online... .
In any case... if there is a tenth of one percent of them putting lodges on state parks I will fight it....
On a side note.... I never knew there was such a serious shortage of pickle ball courts or disk golf courses...
I will fight it too. Promise. Way harder than you. I will agree to some pickle ball courts. But that's it. I am your friend, you know that. To repeat myself, I spent my entire life in land use issues. Anyone in this business, on the government side, will not want to see me coming.
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Post by johnnybandit on Aug 22, 2024 1:07:31 GMT -5
LOL Maybe... But it is proposed...... And I ain't looking for a job... In any case, my gut says you and I would butt heads if we worked together on a project...
Better off just to be friends and bust each others chops online... .
In any case... if there is a tenth of one percent of them putting lodges on state parks I will fight it....
On a side note.... I never knew there was such a serious shortage of pickle ball courts or disk golf courses...
I will fight it too. Promise. Way harder than you. I will agree to some pickle ball courts. But that's it. I am your friend, you know that. To repeat myself, I spent my entire life in land use issues. Anyone in this business, on the government side, will not want to see me coming. I hope you do fight... But I do not even agree to some pickle ball courts in state parks...
Pickle ball courts are should be on city and county parks... And around here they are.... They do not seem to get used all that much...
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Post by whitebacon on Aug 22, 2024 1:12:28 GMT -5
I will fight it too. Promise. Way harder than you. I will agree to some pickle ball courts. But that's it. I am your friend, you know that. To repeat myself, I spent my entire life in land use issues. Anyone in this business, on the government side, will not want to see me coming. I hope you do fight... But I do not even agree to some pickle ball courts in state parks...
Pickle ball courts are should be on city and county parks... And around here they are.... They do not seem to get used all that much...
I'm with you, 100% on your observations. Don't let anyone believe I'm getting soft.
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Post by slough on Aug 22, 2024 6:34:59 GMT -5
What could have been a good discussion SMH
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Post by cadman on Aug 22, 2024 6:49:38 GMT -5
What could have been a good discussion SMH You are right. I deleted my reply.
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Post by johngalt on Aug 22, 2024 6:50:48 GMT -5
Obviously a lot of you have never been to Yellowstone, Glacier, Yosemite and a lot of other big parks?
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Post by cadman on Aug 22, 2024 6:53:12 GMT -5
Back on topic
I am not opposed to adding cabins and some lodging to more state parks. But it sounds like they are going to the extreme. Why would someone go to a state park to play golf or pickleball? When I go there, it is to enjoy nature and the wildlife.
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Post by JS84 on Aug 22, 2024 7:12:39 GMT -5
Looks like 99% of us are in agreeance this is a poor use of state conservation lands.
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Post by misterjr on Aug 22, 2024 8:21:03 GMT -5
I have never heard anyone complaining that Florida does not have enough golf courses.
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Post by JS84 on Aug 22, 2024 8:29:38 GMT -5
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Post by cyclist on Aug 22, 2024 8:33:08 GMT -5
Obviously a lot of you have never been to Yellowstone, Glacier, Yosemite and a lot of other big parks? Don't remember any golf courses. Maybe a historical lodge or 2.
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Post by tampaspicer on Aug 22, 2024 8:54:54 GMT -5
Obviously a lot of you have never been to Yellowstone, Glacier, Yosemite and a lot of other big parks? Don't remember any golf courses. Maybe a historical lodge or 2. There are plenty of golf courses on state parks all over the US.
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