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Post by JS84 on Jul 7, 2023 11:08:42 GMT -5
I'm considering picking up a MZ to expand my opportunities more and I feel like there would be less of a learning curve with a MZ then jumping into Archery.
I'm looking for some suggestions on MZs and just some overall knowledge exchange.
Please educate me on MZs, powders, loads, bullets/sabots.
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Post by jmarkb on Jul 7, 2023 12:22:36 GMT -5
CVA Wolf. Inexpensive, easy to clean, very well made. It's drilled and tapped for optics. I've had mine for 10 years or so, no issues of any kind. It will shoot a 1 1/2" group easy at 100 yards. Probably better if I shot it off a gun rest. I shoot three 50 grain pellets in it and use the synthetic ones. They're much cleaner than the black powder ones. I shoot 240 grain sabots out of mine, I think they're Hornady bullets. There's lots of choices for bullets. I've killed 7-8 with it, and most were bang flops. On a still day, and a good rest, I would be plenty confidant is taking a shot out to 200 yards. ML's are a blast to shoot, as well as being fairly inexpensive. More like shooting 22's than you deer rifle.
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Post by 6thgen on Jul 7, 2023 12:23:13 GMT -5
I shoot a Thompson Center Omega that I have had for around 20 years. I shoot 3 50 grain pellets of 777 and shoot the Thompson Center Accu-glide 250 grain shockwave bullets. I have a Leupold 3x9 scope. It has a stainless steel barrel and every couple years I will buy a new breech plug. I have never had a miss fire. I do shoot it once or twice prior to the season, to make sure it is still on and then thoroughly clean it and I use gun scrubber (acetone) on a patch to get all of the grease or Hoppe's out of the barrel so it is pristinely cleaned. I do not fire a 209 cap prior to loading it. I believe that is a carry over habit before in line muzzleloaders came on the scene. I will say it is the hardest recoiling firearm I shoot. I always remember to make sure my eye is back as far as I can get it and I make sure I have the gun well shouldered and a good grip on the front stock. In North Central where I hunt the most the peak rut is during the week of muzzleloader. I have it sighted dead on at 100 but know it will be 3-4 inches low at 150. I have only shot a citron that far on a bet before. That melon disappeared when I shot.
I do not think you can go wrong with any modern brand out there. The only thing I have ever heard negative was on Powerbelt bullets. I have never used them but have heard of accuracy issues and no expansion from others. Good luck and let us know what you decide on!
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 7, 2023 12:36:26 GMT -5
CVA Wolf. Inexpensive, easy to clean, very well made. It's drilled and tapped for optics. I've had mine for 10 years or so, no issues of any kind. It will shoot a 1 1/2" group easy at 100 yards. Probably better if I shot it off a gun rest. I shoot three 50 grain pellets in it and use the synthetic ones. They're much cleaner than the black powder ones. I shoot 240 grain sabots out of mine, I think they're Hornady bullets. There's lots of choices for bullets. I've killed 7-8 with it, and most were bang flops. On a still day, and a good rest, I would be plenty confidant is taking a shot out to 200 yards. ML's are a blast to shoot, as well as being fairly inexpensive. More like shooting 22's than you deer rifle. I agree. I bought my son one of these in a scope/package sale a couple years ago and after only bore sighting, it was dead on at 100 yds. Frankly, I was amazed at how well it shot right out of the box. I would probably suggest spending the extra $100 on the stainless barrel model. I did, and I'm glad I did. The entire thing cleans up nicely and shoots great. |
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Post by bindersmom on Jul 7, 2023 12:50:41 GMT -5
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Post by richm on Jul 7, 2023 13:25:05 GMT -5
CVA Optima
I had a Wolf and it was finicky got rid of it - bought an optima and liking it.
WHATEVER YOU GET go stainless.
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Post by JS84 on Jul 7, 2023 13:27:14 GMT -5
Those firesticks are interesting. My initial thought though on new technology is, how long will it be available if not widely adopted.
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Post by bswiv on Jul 7, 2023 13:34:59 GMT -5
If you've a Mossberg shotgun you can get a drop in ML barrel....
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Post by coolcow on Jul 7, 2023 13:49:59 GMT -5
I have a wolf, but I think lower end of the major manufacturers are similar - they are simple guns. Like others have said, go stainless. The lower end barrel wants to rust so bad it's crazy. I spend a lot of time cleaning the gun (after every hunt and at least one deep clean in the off-season). I'd buy a new one with a stainless barrel except mine shoots so well. I use two 50 gain 777 pellets and a 290 grain Barnes T-EZ. I was using a 240 Powerbelt, but I didn't like the way the powerbelt broke up on a pig before I went on a hunt for some bigger animals so I did a little research. The Barnes T-EZ are solid copper and petals perfectly on impact. Huge bullet, but carries energy downrange.
I keep it simple with the powder pellets. Stick with the same manufacturer and research what will burn relatively clean and not gunk up your barrel and plug too bad. Some make magnum loads (60 or 70 grains) and I think some may make loads < 50 grains, so you can tinker with charges a little bit. Again, I kept mine simple. 100 grains made my bullet hit the same spot every time so I kept with it. You may find that 150 grains is too much out of the shorter Wolf barrel and causes erratic groups.
They are fun, but that's after you get it sighted in. It's a big pain to go through the load, shoot, clean process at the range. I do enjoy carrying it into the woods and a lot of rut activity happens around the muzzleloader season in my area.
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 7, 2023 14:07:57 GMT -5
I have three: T/C Renegade .54, T/C Cherokee.32, Knight TK2000 12 ga. Use a patch and ball in the 54, a prelubed 🦬 bullet in the 32. Three different powders fff, ff,both 777.Shotgun likes ff real Goex BP. If you use Natural Lube and follow the instructions for seasoning a barrel you'll save yourself some work and make loading multiple rounds much easier. Applies only to the two rifles. The 12ga kicks so much you won't remember if you cleaned it or not. Good luck. They're fun within their limits.
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Post by JS84 on Jul 7, 2023 14:19:45 GMT -5
If you've a Mossberg shotgun you can get a drop in ML barrel.... Interesting. I have a Mossberg 500 Grandslam in 12g. I'll have to look into this and see what I find. Ultimately I'll probably want a stand alone MZ instead of breaking down and reassembling my turkey gun constantly though. |
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Post by richm on Jul 7, 2023 15:07:39 GMT -5
They are fun, but that's after you get it sighted in. It's a big pain to go through the load, shoot, clean process at the range. THIS!!!! Use mixture of 1/2 rubbing alcohol and 1/2 windshield washer fluid (blue stuff) for cleaning at the range - it is amazing how this mix works. Some guys use Windex... Also - get a range rod for cleaning and packing the loads in the barrel. You don't wanna use the rod that comes with the gun for frequent shooting. I'll repeat this - "set it and forget it" cause cleaning is a PITA. They want to rust (even the SS barrels) and need thorough cleaning all the time. For a scope - what are you gonna shoot? 50 or 100 yards and you can use a regular scope. 150-200-250 yards and you'll want to dial or use BDC.  This is my Optima 120 yard sighting target from last year - 3-oclock was the first shot, then the cluster of 4 and then the one at 11 oclock cause I wanted to be good to 150-175 yards. With 3 inches high at 120 yards (11 oclock), it was about 12-16 inches low at 200 yds. Fired a total of 10 shots with it last year, little buck was shot no. 10. Thinking of getting a 3-9x BDC Diamondback scope and taking it out to 200 yards. |
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Post by bowhunter4life on Jul 7, 2023 16:28:43 GMT -5
I shoot a Thompson Center Omega that I have had for around 20 years. I shoot 3 50 grain pellets of 777 and shoot the Thompson Center Accu-glide 250 grain shockwave bullets. I have a Leupold 3x9 scope. It has a stainless steel barrel and every couple years I will buy a new breech plug. I have never had a miss fire. I do shoot it once or twice prior to the season, to make sure it is still on and then thoroughly clean it and I use gun scrubber (acetone) on a patch to get all of the grease or Hoppe's out of the barrel so it is pristinely cleaned. I do not fire a 209 cap prior to loading it. I believe that is a carry over habit before in line muzzleloaders came on the scene. I will say it is the hardest recoiling firearm I shoot. I always remember to make sure my eye is back as far as I can get it and I make sure I have the gun well shouldered and a good grip on the front stock. In North Central where I hunt the most the peak rut is during the week of muzzleloader. I have it sighted dead on at 100 but know it will be 3-4 inches low at 150. I have only shot a citron that far on a bet before. That melon disappeared when I shot. I do not think you can go wrong with any modern brand out there. The only thing I have ever heard negative was on Powerbelt bullets. I have never used them but have heard of accuracy issues and no expansion from others. Good luck and let us know what you decide on! . This is the same muzzleloader I’ve had for over 25 years. Many years ago an old timer at the range advised me to try 2 pellets, instead of 3 because you will get a more consistent burn to your powder which results in better accuracy… less thump and very accurate out to 100 yards. I used that same bullet for years, but I’ve been looking for something to give me a better blood trail. I’m trying the Barnes bullet this year. |
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Post by altuck on Jul 7, 2023 18:32:07 GMT -5
TC Impact, inexpensive, well made, shoots well, easy to clean.
2 50 grain pellets 777 and 245 grain powerbelt, good setup.
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Post by Stumpy on Jul 7, 2023 20:47:34 GMT -5
Here, here, here let me spend your money for you....
CVA Accura with nitride treated barrel
Blackhorn 209 powder
209 Magnum primers or Federal 209A primers
T/C Shockwave bullets
With the 209 blackhorn powder, this is how to clean the barrel at the range. After shooting a load, take a dry patch and run it down the barrel and out, turn the patch over an run it down again. Pull the patch out, your ready to load. The best part, at the end of the day, clean the barrel with Hoppe,s #9 solvent....lightly oil the barrel and your done.
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Post by james243 on Jul 7, 2023 21:01:19 GMT -5
I was started on a .50 TC Hawken shooting 385 grain hornady Great Plains bullet and 90 grained of Goex FF. Couple of years ago I bought a used Knight DISC. Not really the fanciest of modern ML rifles, but it delivers the old trusty load really well so I’m happy.
Stainless is your friend for sure. Even with real black powder the barrel is clean with one patch in a bath of hot soapy water.
One thing I really like about the Knight is it’s safety system. Since I am opposed to removing the primer for pretty much any reason to prevent moisture entry; its secondary safety gives me added comfort since the can’t just unload the gun to climb a tree or carry on a bike, etc.
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Post by JS84 on Jul 7, 2023 22:21:31 GMT -5
One thing I really like about the Knight is it’s safety system. Can you go into more detail here? Is there an added danger with a loaded MZ in a different way then a loaded rifle? Please excuse my ignorance |
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Post by flconch53 on Jul 8, 2023 7:17:15 GMT -5
No there is not especially with the Black Powder substitutes. A CVA Wolf works like a single shot shotgun. Too many people shooting muzzleloaders as weekend hunters make way too big a deal out of it. Remember the technology has been around for 100's of years. Keep it simple
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Post by wildman on Jul 8, 2023 7:21:00 GMT -5
I have an old Knight Predator SS .50 cal shooting Hornady XTP 300 gr. sabots that I upgraded the bolt on to use 209 primers (was percussion cap originally to show how old it is). I had stocked up on a few bottles of Pyrodex on clearance along time ago and still use that at 100 gr. because I'm cheap, but not as convenient as pellets as have to measure unlike pellets these days. It is also dirtier than newer powders. The gun is still a tack driver though and typically drops them in their tracks. As others have mentioned, go with stainless and thoroughly clean the gun after shooting. Like James243, I really like the double safety on my Knight, especially when pulling it up or letting down from the stand. Can screw the 2nd safety down on the back of the bolt then release the bolt without touching the primer. I could see at some point the lever safety potentially catching a twig and releasing so it feels safer to me.
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Post by james243 on Jul 8, 2023 7:39:37 GMT -5
One thing I really like about the Knight is it’s safety system. Can you go into more detail here? Is there an added danger with a loaded MZ in a different way then a loaded rifle? Please excuse my ignorance No added danger I would say if you are willing to remove the primer from the gun. But in my opinion keeping the gun that way for long is asking to have moisture issues. I’m not familiar with what other makers offer, so maybe I’m over thinking it. Coming from a side hammer Hawken that has a fully exposed primer and a hammer that could easily snag on something while climbing a tree; the Knight’s secondary safety that screws shut and physically restricts the firing pin from moving makes me feel quite safe just leaving the primer in while doing pretty much anything: biking, climbing, car transport, rustling around in a tent, etc. Unlike friends who have had ignition issues from following the practice of removing the primer for safety, which some places like St. Vincent require in the campground; I never have those issues. Putting it another way: with a center fire rifle there is no reason not to disarm the gun when not in use or you are doing something that increases the risk of having a loaded gun. But there is a down side to disarming is muzzleloader if that involves removing the primer, and that is exposing the powder to moisture. My point is that I think this gun does a good job of being disarmed and keeping the powder dry. I know it’s still fully loaded, and it’s still just a mechanical device that could fail. To my estimation it is way better than just depending on the standard thumb safety and relatively light trigger and doing the things I mentioned and assuming nothing will happen; and better than taking the primer out for all those occasions. |
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Post by skunkdog on Jul 8, 2023 7:41:33 GMT -5
I shoot a Thompson Center Omega that I have had for around 20 years. I shoot 3 50 grain pellets of 777 and shoot the Thompson Center Accu-glide 250 grain shockwave bullets. I have a Leupold 3x9 scope. It has a stainless steel barrel and every couple years I will buy a new breech plug. I have never had a miss fire. I do shoot it once or twice prior to the season, to make sure it is still on and then thoroughly clean it and I use gun scrubber (acetone) on a patch to get all of the grease or Hoppe's out of the barrel so it is pristinely cleaned. I do not fire a 209 cap prior to loading it. I believe that is a carry over habit before in line muzzleloaders came on the scene. I will say it is the hardest recoiling firearm I shoot. I always remember to make sure my eye is back as far as I can get it and I make sure I have the gun well shouldered and a good grip on the front stock. In North Central where I hunt the most the peak rut is during the week of muzzleloader. I have it sighted dead on at 100 but know it will be 3-4 inches low at 150. I have only shot a citron that far on a bet before. That melon disappeared when I shot. I do not think you can go wrong with any modern brand out there. The only thing I have ever heard negative was on Powerbelt bullets. I have never used them but have heard of accuracy issues and no expansion from others. Good luck and let us know what you decide on! I have the same rifle, I've had it around 18 years now and it's never failed me. Stainless fluted barrel, composite stock, it's a tack driver. I tired shooting 3 pellets a few times and that was it. Two work just fine. |
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Post by Crkr 23 on Jul 8, 2023 7:42:45 GMT -5
I use a Knight Ulta-lite 50 cal with BH 209 powder and Barnes bullets. The Knight has a safety like a Rem 700 and an additional safety that disconnects the firing pin. The primers are a PIA to put in unless you use a priming tool. I like the BH 209 powder because it doesn't foul as as bad as black or 777 powder. The Barnes bullets are very accurate and consistently expand at all hunting velocities.
Don't think that just because you have a SS barrel that you can scrimp on cleaning, SS will corrode. Ask me how I know.
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 8, 2023 8:45:18 GMT -5
X3 or 4 on going with 2 pellets rather than 3.
I still shoot a 46 year old 54cal hawkens I built from a kit when I was 9. It shoots terribly high at normal hunting distances with 100 to 120 gains of ffg. Dropping the dosage down to 90 did wonders for its accuracy. The point being, the biggest bang isn't always the best option.
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Post by JS84 on Jul 8, 2023 9:19:12 GMT -5
Thank you James. Your explanation made sense.
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 8, 2023 9:33:40 GMT -5
Without reading everything posted my Knight TK2000 safety does take some getting used to but works just fine for what it was designed. In turkey hunting scenarios I'll have the screw in safety off if sitting. Seldom get surprised but if I do I can take both off quickly. With only one exception I can think of an uncapped or unprimed muzzleloader is considered unloaded in every place I've hunted. Picture is of the Knight's first. Been a few more. Hat came with the gun. Got a free case also.  |
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Post by jmarkb on Jul 8, 2023 10:00:15 GMT -5
CVA Optima I had a Wolf and it was finicky got rid of it - bought an optima and liking it. WHATEVER YOU GET go stainless. What do you mean by finicky? Serious question not busting your chops. |
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Post by skunkdog on Jul 8, 2023 12:37:19 GMT -5
If I could figure out how to post pictures I'll show you my deer from last season I killed with my Muzzleloader.
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Post by swampdog on Jul 8, 2023 13:03:23 GMT -5
I shoot a CVA Wolf .50 cal. It will put two in the same hole at 100 yds. Bought it with a scope and am very satisfied with it. If a do over I would go with a SS barrel.
I also have a TC Hawkin .50 my wife and I built from a kit. It has rang up a lot of critters with iron sights at ranges <100 yds.
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Post by joekat46 on Jul 8, 2023 15:41:28 GMT -5
If I could figure out how to post pictures I'll show you my deer from last season I killed with my Muzzleloader. Pictures are easy. Do the printed portion of your post. Post it without trying to add the pic . Then do a modify (edit) You'll get an option to add attachment. Add it. Click attach. Click done it's magic. If it post upside down don't worry. Anyone logged in will see it correctly when they click on it , This method is much easier for me than the first option you're given on a post . Title this the joekat work around. Good luck |
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Post by skunkdog on Jul 8, 2023 16:23:00 GMT -5
Last Nov ML deer from Virginia
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