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Post by ferris1248 on May 18, 2024 9:18:31 GMT -5
There's been a bit of push to get unions more involved in the American workforce. Folks may be finding out it's not always what was promised. "Penske Truck Rental employees in Nashville and Minneapolis voted to remove the International Association of Machinists union." "The vote came after each petitioned the National Labor Relations Board to remove the union from their workplace." "David Saylor filed the Nashville petition and Kyle Fulkerson filed the Minneapolis petition with free legal aid from the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation." "The Minnesota workers voted 26-7 on May 1 to remove the union while the Tennessee workers voted 15-8 on May 8 for the removal." “This lopsided vote is a testament to the fact that after having seen the IAM up close and personal in our workplace, my colleagues and I are confident that we are better off without union officials so-called ‘representation,’” Fulkerson said in a statement." "The Minnesota removal became final May 8 and Tennessee on Wednesday after a one-week objection period." “Workers across the country are increasingly exercising their rights to remove unwanted unions, with more decertification elections held last year than in any year since 2017,” National Right to Work Foundation President Mark Mix said in a statement." www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/penske-truck-rental-employees-in-nashville-minneapolis-oust-union/ar-BB1mA01y?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=u531&cvid=08e34c85d1d64cb5c64c31c72f1b8466&ei=21"Workers at a Mercedes-Benz plant in Vance, Alabama, voted against unionizing in a major setback for the United Auto Workers (UAW)." "Autoworkers at the plant voted just 44% in favor of unionizing under the UAW and 56% against, with more than 4,600 votes cast, according to preliminary results released by the union Friday." "The loss by the UAW threatens the union’s plan to expand into many of the currently non-unionized auto plants in the U.S., particularly in the South, that have traditionally resisted unionization." www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/united-auto-workers-uaw-handed-huge-defeat-by-alabama-workers/ar-BB1mB7OA?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=u531&cvid=df8378393b9e4ad7cdca8458f0ca68cd&ei=9
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Post by swampdog on May 18, 2024 9:32:43 GMT -5
Pretty interesting. Never appreciated the fact people would tell you not to come to work when you really needed too. I guess they were great in the early days when working conditions were unsafe. I guess the majority is speaking and that’s the way each business should be.
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Post by tonyroma on May 18, 2024 9:48:44 GMT -5
Pretty interesting. Never appreciated the fact people would tell you not to come to work when you really needed too. I guess they were great in the early days when working conditions were unsafe. I guess the majority is speaking and that’s the way each business should be. I’m a union guy but if the majority want them out so be it. Mercedes plant in Bama just voted no on the UAW.
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Post by illinoisfisherman on May 18, 2024 9:53:58 GMT -5
Unions only take dues and “invest”(use) your money that they take from your checks for retirement.
They seem not to stand up for their workers any longer. Some municipalities are now decertifying their unions.
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Post by tonyroma on May 18, 2024 10:01:38 GMT -5
Unions only take dues and “invest”(use) your money that they take from your checks for retirement. They seem not to stand up for their workers any longer. Some municipalities are now decertifying their unions. Thats a huge generalization. Many unions do much more than what you have stated.
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Post by bswiv on May 18, 2024 10:08:05 GMT -5
Unions only take dues and “invest”(use) your money that they take from your checks for retirement. They seem not to stand up for their workers any longer. Some municipalities are now decertifying their unions. Thats a huge generalization. Many unions do much more than what you have stated. I'm generally not a "union" sort......and surely would eliminate all public unions ( teachers etc. ).......but.......a enlightened union leadership can be part of making a operation more efficient. Remember my grandfather explaining how that would happen in the garment industry at times......though I'm now unclear on the details of what he said. He's been gone 40+ years so it's been a LONG TIME. Life is complicated.
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Post by tonyroma on May 18, 2024 10:37:12 GMT -5
I disagree on your public sector Union thing since I’m in one, I do agree when the Union and management work together it can improve efficiency. It does not have to be an adversarial relationship. Now a shop of 20 guys at a Penske rental probably never even sees a union rep unless something bad has happened, if things are ticking away like clockwork I can see why they feel they don’t need representation.
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Post by illinoisfisherman on May 18, 2024 12:02:31 GMT -5
My father basically held the highest union position (not a union rep)on the CSX Railroad. The railroad wanted him to become kind of an executive but he refused to leave the union so they created a new position for him. He spent the last 10 years working on upgrading the railroad communication system During the course of his tenure on the railroad he had held many union positions.
The railroad officials were very pleased with his work and when he was finally finished they actually paid him to retire when he was about 59. I didn’t follow exactly what the problem was with the union but it seemed that they kind of gave him some static about his special deal.
Anyway he must have been good at what he did as his “territory” was “everything east of the Mississippi” and it was basically an east coast railroad.
Earlier on I remembered some people calling him at home once in a while. One had kind of an odd name. That was when the merger happened that formed the CSX predecessor the “Chessie System “. Later I read the names of the callers mentioned in an article. They were the two men that were basically the Presidents of the railroad. I asked Dad why they called. He said simply for information and advice.
Anyway a lifelong union man soured on his union at the end of his career. 🤷♂️
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Post by bswiv on May 18, 2024 12:08:13 GMT -5
I disagree on your public sector Union thing since I’m in one, I do agree when the Union and management work together it can improve efficiency. It does not have to be an adversarial relationship. Now a shop of 20 guys at a Penske rental probably never even sees a union rep unless something bad has happened, if things are ticking away like clockwork I can see why they feel they don’t need representation. Honestly......I fail to see why the arbiter of compliance with labor laws and all the rest would need to have it's own employees in a union? I mean if there was a place where one would expect the rules to be followed it would be at the place where they both write and enforce the rules......the government...... So.....please enlighten me.....
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Post by wynnv on May 18, 2024 12:59:00 GMT -5
I have many thoughts on this as I have many years of experience with this topic. I will keep it short and simple. Unions are only as strong as their membership. If you have a weak membership you might as well not have representation. Life is about checks and balances. Not all employers have the best interest of their employees in mind.
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Post by ferris1248 on May 18, 2024 14:24:39 GMT -5
I have many thoughts on this as I have many years of experience with this topic. I will keep it short and simple. Unions are only as strong as their membership. If you have a weak membership you might as well not have representation. Life is about checks and balances. Not all employers have the best interest of their employees in mind. I pretty much agree with you although that last sentence could be reversed in certain situations.
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Post by bswiv on May 18, 2024 14:40:20 GMT -5
I have many thoughts on this as I have many years of experience with this topic. I will keep it short and simple. Unions are only as strong as their membership. If you have a weak membership you might as well not have representation. Life is about checks and balances. Not all employers have the best interest of their employees in mind. I pretty much agree with you although that last sentence could be reversed in certain situations. What he says here....... We often do not know nor at times like what is actually in our self interest. Employees are just as often as disinterested in the employer surviving than the employer is in the employee's desire to drive fine cars. Balance.......a wise employer values his employees and takes good care that they are happy and paid well. And employees who have such a employer are best served by doing their best to make sure the employer turns a profit. Those things feed on one another......
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volfan
Junior Member
Posts: 32
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Post by volfan on May 18, 2024 14:46:17 GMT -5
I am surprised that VW in Chattanooga voted for union a couple weeks ago.
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Post by ferris1248 on May 18, 2024 14:57:38 GMT -5
I was a little. I think it's the result of covid, wages not keeping up with subsequent inflation and housing. We've seen several unions voted for here in the south where's it not common.
The VW deal was curious to me but the Penske thing was kinda strange. They voted themselves in but turned around and voted themselves out in a relatively short period of time.
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Post by whitebacon on May 18, 2024 16:06:53 GMT -5
Unions only take dues and “invest”(use) your money that they take from your checks for retirement. They seem not to stand up for their workers any longer. Some municipalities are now decertifying their unions. Thats a huge generalization. Many unions do much more than what you have stated. We can fight about this another day, but in Florida by far, the most useless and corrupt union is the teachers union, where membership is basically compelled. Ex-wife, ex- girlfriend, and MY mother, all teachers. I saw it first hand, as well as the bullshit dues which were paid via automatic payroll deduction, which the school board sanctioned and mandated. Talk about a racket.
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Post by PolarsStepdad on May 18, 2024 18:55:55 GMT -5
"The Union never did anything for me" Translation: I never attended the first meeting. I really didn't like unions to begin with. I was the weakest link. I got caught breaking a cardinal rule of safety to which there is no defense for. I was part of the problem and never the solution. I was a worthless fuck and who talked shit about all the worthless fucks the union protects. I expected the union to be able to defend me for the indefensable and when they couldn't it was their fault.
I can't wait to review this in 5 years and all those who voted to decertify will surely be much happier and better off.
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Post by PolarsStepdad on May 18, 2024 19:05:36 GMT -5
I am surprised that VW in Chattanooga voted for union a couple weeks ago. If you knew anything about VW you'd be surprised they didn't the first time. But threats by yhe Governor and and Senators will do that. But I was pleasantly surprised it was by suck a large margin 75+%. Next up Hyundai. Where than have been caught working minors in the plant TWICE!!! And at the supplier plants as well. What a convenient work force. Illegals under age. Who better to exploit? Because they sure as hell ain't gonna stand up and report it
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Post by johngalt on May 19, 2024 7:59:08 GMT -5
I disagree on your public sector Union thing since I’m in one, I do agree when the Union and management work together it can improve efficiency. It does not have to be an adversarial relationship. Now a shop of 20 guys at a Penske rental probably never even sees a union rep unless something bad has happened, if things are ticking away like clockwork I can see why they feel they don’t need representation. Who represents the taxpayers in public sector unions?
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Post by johngalt on May 19, 2024 8:00:30 GMT -5
I am surprised that VW in Chattanooga voted for union a couple weeks ago. If you knew anything about VW you'd be surprised they didn't the first time. But threats by yhe Governor and and Senators will do that. But I was pleasantly surprised it was by suck a large margin 75+%. Next up Hyundai. Where than have been caught working minors in the plant TWICE!!! And at the supplier plants as well. What a convenient work force. Illegals under age. Who better to exploit? Because they sure as hell ain't gonna stand up and report it Sounds like OSHA isn’t doing their job? Oh but wait,,,they themselves are in a union!😉
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Post by bswiv on May 19, 2024 8:33:37 GMT -5
I disagree on your public sector Union thing since I’m in one, I do agree when the Union and management work together it can improve efficiency. It does not have to be an adversarial relationship. Now a shop of 20 guys at a Penske rental probably never even sees a union rep unless something bad has happened, if things are ticking away like clockwork I can see why they feel they don’t need representation. Who represents the taxpayers in public sector unions? In a way....a rhetorical question because we all know WHO is supposed to. But, just as with corporate welfare deals where the public is kept in the dark until it's decided, our elected officials know we're not really watching. Which is how the secrecy rules in corporate welfare got passed and the deduction of union dues from teachers pay also. One has been rectified....the other rumbles a long...
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Post by richm on May 19, 2024 9:04:43 GMT -5
Unions did a lot to get workers rights, 40 hr week, etc. Nowadays they seem to push for stuff and not really care about the workers. Unions killed the Twinkie and another big one, forget what it was. They unions guys where like "Yah! Take that Capitalists!" Then 20,000+ folks went on unemployment each time. Sure worked out for them. The UPS union thing made em more money but it also reduced the workforce. Very few companies don't offer living wages or benefits these days cause if they didn't the employees can hop ship and go work for someone who does. So, what is the union actually gonna do? My sister was union prez for a long time - involved in the negotiations and such. The more folks who don't join means the less power union has. In her case the big negotiators conceded health care stuff. She retired with some serious insurance coverage, and before they changed the plan. The folks who weren't able to retire were getting a significant jump in insurance cost. The union dues would have been cheaper.
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Post by wynnv on May 19, 2024 10:14:46 GMT -5
I have many thoughts on this as I have many years of experience with this topic. I will keep it short and simple. Unions are only as strong as their membership. If you have a weak membership you might as well not have representation. Life is about checks and balances. Not all employers have the best interest of their employees in mind. I pretty much agree with you although that last sentence could be reversed in certain situations. The best tool a negotiator has while at the table is a well trained productive membership that knows the importance of protecting their job. You protect your job by doing your job well and understanding the relationship you have with your employer. Good leadership preaches that to their members. My experience was with the construction and service contract sector. I moved on from that last year after 27 years.
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Post by madm002 on May 20, 2024 8:57:24 GMT -5
I pretty much agree with you although that last sentence could be reversed in certain situations. The best tool a negotiator has while at the table is a well trained productive membership that knows the importance of protecting their job. You protect your job by doing your job well and understanding the relationship you have with your employer. Good leadership preaches that to their members. My experience was with the construction and service contract sector. I moved on from that last year after 27 years. In the arc of my career I worked for three companies that had factories and produced stuff. One, a company that produced AC units for mobile homes, had a union. It was a small town and this was in important company. Me being the big mouthed young turk spouted off at a staff meeting asking why do we have to have a union (I grew up with a massive Fischer Body plant across the street, where my BIL worked and he told us how no one worked, and there was alot of waste). The VP of Ops stood up and said, let me explain something to you. We have a great relationship with this union. The agreement we have protects them and us, and gives us a very defined set of rules that we both have to follow and it works. I like it. It changed my perspective. I think it can be good or bad, depending on what you want to make of it. But that management team, from the President on down were very visible on the plant floor, knew everyone and their stories
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Post by illinoisfisherman on May 20, 2024 11:26:46 GMT -5
Yes. The baker’s union would not negotiate with Hostess Foods. They warned them that they could not stay afloat if the union would not negotiate. I guess the union thought they were not telling the truth. They closed the bakery and went out of business. No more Twinkies. That is about 3 miles from my house.
All the bakery employees lost their jobs. They seemed to be in shock about it. It was very sad but the company was about broke and they warned the union. It was on TV every day for a while.
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Post by One Man Gang on May 20, 2024 14:16:57 GMT -5
Unions can be either good or bad. It's better and beneficial both sides if everyone gets along under a system of checks and balances that are mutually agreeable, and more importantly, realistic. The commercial maritime fleet is inundated with different unions, unionized and non union companies. It's not uncommon to have the officers from one union paired with crew from different unions. As a owner or operator your bitch ass better have a solid understanding of contracts, or someone in your HR department who does. I'm no union fan, but it certainly has benefited me. I'm actually perplexed watching guys right now who are willfully taking substantially less pay, and a colossal amount less in every benefit imaginable to do the same job as I do. That makes zero financial sense to me. The truth is, a union only wields so much power in a right to work state. Another truth is, under sound, good faith negotiations employing us through the union is only a miniscule amount more than when you're having to have a staff, administer, and provide medical and benefits packages to a fleet of guys. In our case there's still a solid 35% profit to be had from our towing ops; even through Covid, and the last big recession! As a business owner, I'd take that any day, especially when I know I'm getting more highly trained and skilled people to carry out my mission. One last thing about my experience with a union... it has just about erased all of the ass kissing and nut licking from sub performers trying to curry favors for advancement and preferential treatment. That was one big reason the union got called in to Port Everglades to begin with. I am the first to preach that the tail ain't gonna wag the dog, but it has worked out very well for the most part in our instance. That's not to say without a few hiccups along the way of course, but it has kept the office in check over several cases of bullshit that I won't get into. It has also culled more than a few substandard assholes who needed to go that the union couldn't/wouldn't protect. In my case, losing the union would cost me over $40k a year in benefits, and lifetime medical coverage for my wife and I. To leave that would be just plain stupid. For someone to turn it away because they are afraid they might get fired for supporting it (or any other reason) is not only beyond STOOOOPID, it's cowardly. If a company would come up with a better plan and treat me well, I would gladly accept, as long as I knew for sure they couldn't yank that bag of carrots out of my hands the next year! "That's all I have to say about that, Jenn-nay"
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Post by jmarkb on May 20, 2024 22:48:55 GMT -5
"The Union never did anything for me" Translation: I never attended the first meeting. I really didn't like unions to begin with. I was the weakest link. I got caught breaking a cardinal rule of safety to which there is no defense for. I was part of the problem and never the solution. I was a worthless fuck and who talked shit about all the worthless fucks the union protects. I expected the union to be able to defend me for the indefensable and when they couldn't it was their fault. I can't wait to review this in 5 years and all those who voted to decertify will surely be much happier and better off. That is a bunch of bullshit.
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Post by jmarkb on May 20, 2024 22:58:26 GMT -5
Unions only take dues and “invest”(use) your money that they take from your checks for retirement. They seem not to stand up for their workers any longer. Some municipalities are now decertifying their unions. They also use it to support politicians and give lots of money to them, and their party. At all levels. Even if the member doesn't want those people and things supported with their dues. Not singling out any politico or party.
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Post by tonyroma on May 21, 2024 10:57:21 GMT -5
Union dues cannot go to political funds, a separate political action fund is set up and members can give voluntarily. At least in my situation.
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Post by olmucky on May 21, 2024 11:10:40 GMT -5
Union dues cannot go to political funds, a separate political action fund is set up and members can give voluntarily. At least in my situation. Voluntarily is it?
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Post by olmucky on May 21, 2024 11:12:07 GMT -5
Thats a huge generalization. Many unions do much more than what you have stated. I'm generally not a "union" sort......and surely would eliminate all public unions ( teachers etc. ).......but.......a enlightened union leadership can be part of making a operation more efficient. Remember my grandfather explaining how that would happen in the garment industry at times......though I'm now unclear on the details of what he said. He's been gone 40+ years so it's been a LONG TIME. Life is complicated. Garment industry was controlled and dictated by the mob NOTHING was done, approved, moved, etc without them dictating it
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