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Post by bswiv on Aug 16, 2024 20:09:13 GMT -5
except....that.....based on tracing of Y side chromosomes it appears that very few of us....once we get back a ways and especially if we are of recent Eurasian extraction.....are anything other than MUTS...... Well we all come from 1 pair of humans that spread, then got bottlenecked to 3 pairs of humans. So how you define “purity” defines how you define types of humans and when their lines started. I do believe Northern Europeans are a type as classified by look. They (we) are all basically sub types or mixes of German barbarians. English is itself a form of German. As the DNA analysts reckon it, I’m 95.9% Northwestern European, 2.9% Southern European. The NW European is English and Dutch with a touch of Scandinavian. The Southern European is Spanish/Portuguese. The remaining 1.2% is trace DNA from basically all the other world groups. And.........much of what we call European was once in the area of India.........time back matters.........genetically. Culture......a learned set of behaviors separate from genetics......that is different......for two near on identical humans ( genetically ) can exhibit vastly different learned behaviors. Two different thing......at least much of it.....
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Post by bullfrog on Aug 16, 2024 20:22:09 GMT -5
Well we all come from 1 pair of humans that spread, then got bottlenecked to 3 pairs of humans. So how you define “purity” defines how you define types of humans and when their lines started. I do believe Northern Europeans are a type as classified by look. They (we) are all basically sub types or mixes of German barbarians. English is itself a form of German. As the DNA analysts reckon it, I’m 95.9% Northwestern European, 2.9% Southern European. The NW European is English and Dutch with a touch of Scandinavian. The Southern European is Spanish/Portuguese. The remaining 1.2% is trace DNA from basically all the other world groups. And.........much of what we call European was once in the area of India.........time back matters.........genetically. Culture......a learned set of behaviors separate from genetics......that is different......for two near on identical humans ( genetically ) can exhibit vastly different learned behaviors. Two different thing......at least much of it..... Sure, I don’t believe culture is transmitted via DNA as a general proposition. And yet, individual personality traits and behaviors most certainly can be genetic. We all see it when we see ourselves in our parents. It becomes very evident when a child takes on the traits and personalities of a parent they never met. So if individuals can pass on traits and behaviors to their offspring via genetics, can groups of people share genetic traits or behaviors to the extent they share a common ancestry? I can’t rule it out logically. It would seem less relevant the more intermixed humans become in the modern world, vs the world of 1,000 years ago where people in many parts of the world remained isolated from other groups. I do believe groups of like humans can share spiritual traits that follow through the generations.
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Post by tonyroma on Aug 16, 2024 22:41:37 GMT -5
Anyone do it just to know? For cancer markers (breast cancer for your daughter perhaps)? Who your long long long lost great uncle was? I did it recently to see if I have in me the Seminole blood the family legends swears is there. I do not. I’m entirely Northern European with a touch of Spanish blood, not counting trace elements. At the trace level, I have more East Asian genetics than I do Native American. My historical relatives are a bunch of dead Vikings, and my earliest relatives date back to Roman Scandinavia and the central Asian stepps during the time of the Exodus. So , just straight white boy.
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Post by bullfrog on Aug 17, 2024 2:03:51 GMT -5
I did it recently to see if I have in me the Seminole blood the family legends swears is there. I do not. I’m entirely Northern European with a touch of Spanish blood, not counting trace elements. At the trace level, I have more East Asian genetics than I do Native American. My historical relatives are a bunch of dead Vikings, and my earliest relatives date back to Roman Scandinavia and the central Asian stepps during the time of the Exodus. So , just straight white boy. Pretty much. As legit Anglo-Saxon as an Anglo-Saxon can be. Not even a drop of Mediterranean blood. No Greek, Italian, Eastern European (except for relating to a Hungarian Sarmatian girl from 100-400 AD). Its caused me to wonder whether we are sometimes attracted to members of our own “type.” Its pretty remarkable that through the generations on both sides of my heritage neither side reproduced outside of their type. Northwestern Europeans kept making kids with Northwestern Europeans. That makes sense in the middle ages but during the age of exploration and afterward humans started having access to groups more far-flung that whoever was within walking or riding distance. Its hard to believe no one in my lines ever married and reproduced with a person from a very different group. Which there is a part of the analysis that reads as follows: English (listed here as British): 1-2 generations back. Dutch (listed here as German): 1-3 generations back. Spanish: 5-8+ generations back. Native American: 6-8+ generations back. 8+ generations is their catch all for anything beyond 8. The other trace world-groups in my ancestry don’t register on this list at all. Given that Native American does, maybe that does mean I have a Seminole ancestor. 6-8 generations back would put it back to the correct time frame. At least two ancestors were confirmed veterans of the Second and Third Seminole Wars. The family legend is that one of the ancestors from that time bought a Seminole woman as a slave and kept her as a concubine and held the children out as legitimate from his marriage. On the Spanish side, 5-8 generations back would have been about right for one if my ancestors to have married a Spanish girl from a Spanish settlement, although we have no stories of such. Sometimes we come out with olive skin and kinky hair. That’s supposedly the Seminole blood. But that was bad in early 1900s rural Florida. One of my great aunts came out that way and she left north Florida in the 1940s and married a Cuban man from Tampa where her traits were accepted without the stigma of being part-black. That created the Cuban wing of my family. I have a bunch of my people in Ybor; Spanish-speaking, olive skinned, Catholics.
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Post by bswiv on Aug 17, 2024 4:49:18 GMT -5
So , just straight white boy. Pretty much. As legit Anglo-Saxon as an Anglo-Saxon can be. Not even a drop of Mediterranean blood. No Greek, Italian, Eastern European (except for relating to a Hungarian Sarmatian girl from 100-400 AD). Its caused me to wonder whether we are sometimes attracted to members of our own “type.” Its pretty remarkable that through the generations on both sides of my heritage neither side reproduced outside of their type. Northwestern Europeans kept making kids with Northwestern Europeans. That makes sense in the middle ages but during the age of exploration and afterward humans started having access to groups more far-flung that whoever was within walking or riding distance. Its hard to believe no one in my lines ever married and reproduced with a person from a very different group. Which there is a part of the analysis that reads as follows: English (listed here as British): 1-2 generations back. Dutch (listed here as German): 1-3 generations back. Spanish: 5-8+ generations back. Native American: 6-8+ generations back. 8+ generations is their catch all for anything beyond 8. The other trace world-groups in my ancestry don’t register on this list at all. Given that Native American does, maybe that does mean I have a Seminole ancestor. 6-8 generations back would put it back to the correct time frame. At least two ancestors were confirmed veterans of the Second and Third Seminole Wars. The family legend is that one of the ancestors from that time bought a Seminole woman as a slave and kept her as a concubine and held the children out as legitimate from his marriage. On the Spanish side, 5-8 generations back would have been about right for one if my ancestors to have married a Spanish girl from a Spanish settlement, although we have no stories of such. Sometimes we come out with olive skin and kinky hair. That’s supposedly the Seminole blood. But that was bad in early 1900s rural Florida. One of my great aunts came out that way and she left north Florida in the 1940s and married a Cuban man from Tampa where her traits were accepted without the stigma of being part-black. That created the Cuban wing of my family. I have a bunch of my people in Ybor; Spanish-speaking, olive skinned, Catholics. With traceable history, written and by other means, carrying us back at least 4-4500 years in places.....and as we know the Celts once were a Central if not Eastern European living culture/tribe/people and as we know they both worked and were driven west by others emigrating/invading/migrating from the east.......well......I remain at a loss as to understand how we can do more with what "retail" genetic testing does than establish ( 8 was your number and it seems reasonable ) where our individual lineage of humans had made it to up to a point sometime not to distant.......leaving the question of where and who we came from quite confused and unanswered. Simple logic leads me to the thought that as humans seem to have a natural wanderlust, and as that is beneficial to our survival both as a species and as individuals at times, that it is hard to imagine that over the many thousands of years we've wandered this planet that more than the occasional has made his way from the south of Africa to the NE of Europe.....of from the SE of Asia to the west of Africa or.....well....you get it. It's fun I guess.........but as I hold the basic idea that much of, if not the far greatest portion of what sets us apart, or differentiates us being maybe a better word, is the result of how the environment we happened to live in shaped our behaviors of existence and once we advanced far enough socially how the varied and random superstitions and beliefs we hold drove our behavior and organization as groups. My mother's family came from Sicily....1890s or so starting......and if you look at Sicily, read its history of peoples, Normans to Persians and further around.....and then consider.....well.......what the heck is a Sicilian if not a mutt.......and what of the people who touched those people at the time they made it to Sicily.....? Your point that certain genetic traits might express more or less in one set of peoples than another is given, even to the extent of some aspects of behavior as those behaviors may have favored survival in that environment and therefore have possibly become more of what we'd label a "reflex" or "instinct".......can't discount that. But.....because one traces one's genetics to some point in Europe, say the British Isles does not tell us whether your people were Cromwell's murderous zealots, some member of a different but equally violent and zealous group, or, possibly one of those humans who was retiring and accepting and accommodating and tried peace first.....and persistentlyand as a "religion"....? Complicated..............
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Post by bullfrog on Aug 17, 2024 6:42:38 GMT -5
Pretty much. As legit Anglo-Saxon as an Anglo-Saxon can be. Not even a drop of Mediterranean blood. No Greek, Italian, Eastern European (except for relating to a Hungarian Sarmatian girl from 100-400 AD). Its caused me to wonder whether we are sometimes attracted to members of our own “type.” Its pretty remarkable that through the generations on both sides of my heritage neither side reproduced outside of their type. Northwestern Europeans kept making kids with Northwestern Europeans. That makes sense in the middle ages but during the age of exploration and afterward humans started having access to groups more far-flung that whoever was within walking or riding distance. Its hard to believe no one in my lines ever married and reproduced with a person from a very different group. Which there is a part of the analysis that reads as follows: English (listed here as British): 1-2 generations back. Dutch (listed here as German): 1-3 generations back. Spanish: 5-8+ generations back. Native American: 6-8+ generations back. 8+ generations is their catch all for anything beyond 8. The other trace world-groups in my ancestry don’t register on this list at all. Given that Native American does, maybe that does mean I have a Seminole ancestor. 6-8 generations back would put it back to the correct time frame. At least two ancestors were confirmed veterans of the Second and Third Seminole Wars. The family legend is that one of the ancestors from that time bought a Seminole woman as a slave and kept her as a concubine and held the children out as legitimate from his marriage. On the Spanish side, 5-8 generations back would have been about right for one if my ancestors to have married a Spanish girl from a Spanish settlement, although we have no stories of such. Sometimes we come out with olive skin and kinky hair. That’s supposedly the Seminole blood. But that was bad in early 1900s rural Florida. One of my great aunts came out that way and she left north Florida in the 1940s and married a Cuban man from Tampa where her traits were accepted without the stigma of being part-black. That created the Cuban wing of my family. I have a bunch of my people in Ybor; Spanish-speaking, olive skinned, Catholics. With traceable history, written and by other means, carrying us back at least 4-4500 years in places.....and as we know the Celts once were a Central if not Eastern European living culture/tribe/people and as we know they both worked and were driven west by others emigrating/invading/migrating from the east.......well......I remain at a loss as to understand how we can do more with what "retail" genetic testing does than establish ( 8 was your number and it seems reasonable ) where our individual lineage of humans had made it to up to a point sometime not to distant.......leaving the question of where and who we came from quite confused and unanswered. Simple logic leads me to the thought that as humans seem to have a natural wanderlust, and as that is beneficial to our survival both as a species and as individuals at times, that it is hard to imagine that over the many thousands of years we've wandered this planet that more than the occasional has made his way from the south of Africa to the NE of Europe.....of from the SE of Asia to the west of Africa or.....well....you get it. It's fun I guess.........but as I hold the basic idea that much of, if not the far greatest portion of what sets us apart, or differentiates us being maybe a better word, is the result of how the environment we happened to live in shaped our behaviors of existence and once we advanced far enough socially how the varied and random superstitions and beliefs we hold drove our behavior and organization as groups. My mother's family came from Sicily....1890s or so starting......and if you look at Sicily, read its history of peoples, Normans to Persians and further around.....and then consider.....well.......what the heck is a Sicilian if not a mutt.......and what of the people who touched those people at the time they made it to Sicily.....? Your point that certain genetic traits might express more or less in one set of peoples than another is given, even to the extent of some aspects of behavior as those behaviors may have favored survival in that environment and therefore have possibly become more of what we'd label a "reflex" or "instinct".......can't discount that. But.....because one traces one's genetics to some point in Europe, say the British Isles does not tell us whether your people were Cromwell's murderous zealots, some member of a different but equally violent and zealous group, or, possibly one of those humans who was retiring and accepting and accommodating and tried peace first.....and persistentlyand as a "religion"....? Complicated.............. The science in tracing ancestry beyond a few generations simply isn’t as precise as one would think. Every time a set of humans breed, each human only transmits half of their DNA. With each subsequent pairing, the chance decreases that an offspring inherit DNA from an early ancestor. By the 9th generation has arrived, its statically and theoretically possible that the person is carrying no DNA from the first generation. Therefore a person’s “race” could theoretically totally evolve within 9 generations. A person could start black African at generation 1 but then the offspring could begin marrying white Europeans every generation since and by generation 9 theoretically have no African DNA left. Now in reality it usually works out that small amounts of ancestry DNA gets carried on. But how to interpret it is still debatable. I’m familiar with it when it comes to mapping and dating animal lineages. The further back in generations you go, the more open to interpretation the results become. For example, when one says the genetic evidence shows that domestic chicks diverged from wild red junglefowl X millennia ago, that’s seriously debatable. The DNA isn’t providing that precise of a roadmap as being offered. So in the case of my results, my DNA is overwhelmingly Northern European. It means that at least for several generations back from myself that’s all that’s going on. Then they’re a suggestion that 5-8 generations back or beyond, I had a continental Spanish and a Native American ancestor. The NA part is consistent, but not probative, of family legend. The Spanish part is new to me, but consistent with who a native Cracker may have married in that time frame. Or consistent with who a Seminole may have married given how mixed their background was. And yet, I have no matches to museum-type human remains anywhere in the world that’s a part of this database except to a bunch of Vikings from the first century AD into the end of the Middle Ages and 2 tribes of central Asian stepp nomads in ancient times.
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Post by cadman on Aug 17, 2024 6:54:23 GMT -5
I did 23 and me too. One step better was my Aunt. She researched my family on my dads side the old fashion way, letters, phone calls and research. Very interesting things were found out. I do ancestry.com myself. I am still trying to confirm whether a great aunt we were told never married was actually married at one point and never told the family. It is kind of surprising to see what you find on there, but confirming some of it gets difficult since some names are similar.
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Post by ferris1248 on Aug 17, 2024 6:59:27 GMT -5
Good conversation. Im enjoying it.
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Post by cadman on Aug 17, 2024 7:29:32 GMT -5
I looked at 23andme this morning
I am 87.8% British/Irish/ (British includes Southern Uplands of Scotland) 11.9% French/German .3% other
It also says I have a first cousin I never knew of. It claims my Dad's brother had a child nobody knew about.
I also have less than 2% Neanderthal DNA
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Post by johngalt on Aug 17, 2024 7:35:05 GMT -5
Florida Cracker. 😏
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Post by stc1993 on Aug 17, 2024 8:20:15 GMT -5
I'd hate to see what mine would look like. There was 19 children on my father's side 13 on my mother's. I had aunt's and uncles I never met. Don't even think of 1st cousins a lot of them I don't know.
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Post by bswiv on Aug 17, 2024 9:35:48 GMT -5
I'd hate to see what mine would look like. There was 19 children on my father's side 13 on my mother's. I had aunt's and uncles I never met. Don't even think of 1st cousins a lot of them I don't know. Dukes - Hartley....?
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Post by billybob on Aug 17, 2024 9:55:55 GMT -5
I won’t do 23 and me. I been doing ancestry .com for more than 20 years. Off and on. That’s where I found out Old Dog and I are distant cousins. Sure do find interesting stuff
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Post by tonyroma on Aug 17, 2024 11:06:01 GMT -5
I tell my wife she’s so white she makes wonder bread look exotic.
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Post by misterjr on Aug 17, 2024 11:35:58 GMT -5
I knew my maternal great-grandparents, that's all I needed to know.
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