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Post by Captj on Jun 17, 2024 17:06:39 GMT -5
Hypersonics.......what happened to them?
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Post by bullfrog on Jun 17, 2024 19:03:56 GMT -5
Putin wants Biden to win the election. So Putin wants the guy who is green lighting 100’s of billions of dollars in military aid? With Trump saying he will end the conflict in 24 hours. That doesn’t make any sense. Biden will be easier to beat in WWIII. No way his mind is sharp enough to decide to fire on Russia-China when they preemptively launch on us. Trump is a nut. Nuts and/or the cold and calculating use nukes. The senile and timid do not. Trump’s support of Ukraine is the reason the Ukrainians had a kick-butt insurgency when the Russians tried Blitzkrieg. Trump’s true intentions and red-lines are unknown to everyone except Trump. |
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Post by tonyroma on Jun 17, 2024 19:14:07 GMT -5
There will be no winner of WW3.
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Post by bullfrog on Jun 17, 2024 19:29:57 GMT -5
There will be no winner of WW3. In your opinion. Putin and Xi may think much differently. Look how flippantly they kill their own people. American lives will be that much more expendable to them. “We can’t do that, because it will kill too many people and be wrong” is never a calculation that enters their heads. Their only calculation is “how can we maximize our personal power, as well as the power of our nation-states, without losing our power?” Men like them don’t become absolute rulers over their realms by assuming their enemies cannot be defeated. They instead calculate ways to exploit their enemies’ weaknesses while minimizing their own. America’s weakness is not military prowess. Military capability is only half the equation. America’s weakness is cultural mores that extoll the fear of using that otherwise overwhelming military power. We presume that its wrong to mercilessly crush those who wish to crush us. If we could launch a preemptive nuclear war on Russia/China before they could retaliate, we wouldn’t. Because its “wrong.” They, on the other hand, would launch on us in a heartbeat. Only the fear that they can’t get away with it stops them. An old man who is practically senile, but not officially so for political reasons, who is the only authority in the US who can order a nuclear strike, will likely hesitate long enough to let Russia/China launch first and knock our our ability to retaliate. Risk takers may make that calculation anyhow. It doesn’t matter if you or I think its foolish or not. All that matters is whether Putin and Xi would do it. Would you be willing to presume they would not? |
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Post by bullfrog on Jun 17, 2024 19:38:14 GMT -5
 Don’t worry. Rest assured he’ll make a lightning-fast decision to launch once NORAD says the ICBMs are incoming. |
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Post by tonyroma on Jun 17, 2024 20:35:29 GMT -5
I have every confidence in his military advisors.
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Post by bullfrog on Jun 17, 2024 20:40:06 GMT -5
I have every confidence in his military advisors. If he’s not incapacitated, they aren’t allowed to make the call for him. If he is incapacitated, then his cabinet and military leaders are perpetrating a massive and likely criminal hoax on the American people. |
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Post by tonyroma on Jun 17, 2024 20:44:07 GMT -5
I have every confidence in his military advisors. If he’s not incapacitated, they aren’t allowed to make the call for him. If he is incapacitated, then his cabinet and military leaders are perpetrating a massive and likely criminal hoax on the American people. Didn’t say make the call, the military advisors advise. I’m sure JFK was being advised during the Bay of Pigs. |
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Post by bullfrog on Jun 17, 2024 20:55:44 GMT -5
If he’s not incapacitated, they aren’t allowed to make the call for him. If he is incapacitated, then his cabinet and military leaders are perpetrating a massive and likely criminal hoax on the American people. Didn’t say make the call, the military advisors advise. I’m sure JFK was being advised during the Bay of Pigs. Its not the military advisers around Biden I’m necessarily doubting. They can tell him “Mr. President, you need to order us to fire.” They then have to wait for his response. I’m concerned that he has enough capacity to understand the gravity of the order, but not enough capacity to coldly give it. I can see him fretting over the implications in a state of emotional confusion. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2024 21:00:59 GMT -5
Biden is shot. He should not be allowed to decide if he should wipe his butt or not let alone if he should press the nuke button.
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Post by bullfrog on Jun 17, 2024 21:22:16 GMT -5
I vaguely remember that there was once a presidential add about getting the 3am nuke call. I can’t remember the era or the election.
In looking for it, I found this:
Two Presidents from opposing parties conferring with each other for the good of the country and showing each other respect.
Will we ever be there again?
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Post by nikonoclast on Jun 17, 2024 21:28:14 GMT -5
There will be no winner of WW3. In your opinion. Putin and Xi may think much differently. Look how flippantly they kill their own people. American lives will be that much more expendable to them. “We can’t do that, because it will kill too many people and be wrong” is never a calculation that enters their heads. Their only calculation is “how can we maximize our personal power, as well as the power of our nation-states, without losing our power?” Men like them don’t become absolute rulers over their realms by assuming their enemies cannot be defeated. They instead calculate ways to exploit their enemies’ weaknesses while minimizing their own. America’s weakness is not military prowess. Military capability is only half the equation. America’s weakness is cultural mores that extoll the fear of using that otherwise overwhelming military power. We presume that its wrong to mercilessly crush those who wish to crush us. If we could launch a preemptive nuclear war on Russia/China before they could retaliate, we wouldn’t. Because its “wrong.” They, on the other hand, would launch on us in a heartbeat. Only the fear that they can’t get away with it stops them. An old man who is practically senile, but not officially so for political reasons, who is the only authority in the US who can order a nuclear strike, will likely hesitate long enough to let Russia/China launch first and knock our our ability to retaliate. Risk takers may make that calculation anyhow. It doesn’t matter if you or I think it's t won't happenfoolish or not. All that matters is whether Putin and Xi would do it. Would you be willing to presume they would not?
It won't happen. But, I can't say that it can't happen. Why? Because if it does, nothing else will matter. Kiss your butt goodbye. A few hard-care preppers might last a while, but Nuclear Winter is long-term. Rats and roaches will be hard pressed, but they'll adjust better than we can. The leaders of Russia and China know this. A thermonuclear exchange by two or more parties means the end of human civilization. The leaders of India and Pakistan know this. For all his bluster, China has N. Korea's "dear leader" on a short leash. There's only one loose cannon with both nukes, and multiple means to deliver them. We have only ourselves to blame, ... and Ronald Reagan. Despite being clearly forbidden by Congress, a "presidential finding" did the deed. ( Of course, they already had a head-start, thanks to Zalman Shapiro. ) Remember: "Karen Silkwood died for your sins." |
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Post by OhMy on Jun 18, 2024 7:17:56 GMT -5
Didn’t say make the call, the military advisors advise. I’m sure JFK was being advised during the Bay of Pigs. Its not the military advisers around Biden I’m necessarily doubting. They can tell him “Mr. President, you need to order us to fire.” They then have to wait for his response. I’m concerned that he has enough capacity to understand the gravity of the order, but not enough capacity to coldly give it. I can see him fretting over the implications in a state of emotional confusion. He has a track record of not listening to his military advisors. |
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Post by bullfrog on Jun 18, 2024 8:36:58 GMT -5
Its not the military advisers around Biden I’m necessarily doubting. They can tell him “Mr. President, you need to order us to fire.” They then have to wait for his response. I’m concerned that he has enough capacity to understand the gravity of the order, but not enough capacity to coldly give it. I can see him fretting over the implications in a state of emotional confusion. He has a track record of not listening to his military advisors. Something else to think about is this… If the enemy has launched all they have on your cities and you can’t stop it, your response to fire back still won’t save your nation. All it will do is spitefully destroy the enemy for destroying you. I could foresee Biden taking that strain of thought and hesitating as he works our the morals of firing back and destroying the enemy not out of necessity but out of spite. Some hard-core liberals might welcome the destruction of America and decide that the world shouldn’t be destroyed just because America is about to be I could also foresee trusting in our defense systems and only ordering a limited response. I am sure we have amazing nuclear defense systems we civilians know little of. But that doesn’t mean they’ll work under the stress of a full nuclear attack. All of the “what ifs” and “maybes” are the sorts of things our leader can and should be thinking about. Or more accurately, have thought about in advance so as to know how to respond in a split second once the reports come in. I don’t trust Biden to be capable of being that clear and purposeful, however. |
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Post by cadman on Jun 18, 2024 8:38:34 GMT -5
Biden is anti-war and anti-military force for the most part. He has ignored military advisors in the past who advocate a stronger military response, which is a weakness of Biden's. But if Russia launches, I have no doubt we would respond, and the world, as we know it, would end.
But Trump has also demonstrated that he doesn't listen to military advisors and even said "He knew more than the generals" on how to fight a war. That is as dangerous of an attitude as Biden's.
Either one is a danger if the threat of nuclear war increases. Both will have emotional responses that could end the world as we know it.
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Post by Captj on Jun 18, 2024 10:37:48 GMT -5
Nuclear war is a non starter for the major powers. I would be more concerned about Iran and their proxies getting their hands on weapons of mass destruction. Difference is they want to die. There is the 70 Virgins thing.
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Post by meateater on Jun 18, 2024 15:36:13 GMT -5
I have every confidence in his military advisors. i hope your kidding, biden and milley now biden and brown jr. not the best team. yes i know trump hired milley first. |
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Post by luapnor on Jun 18, 2024 15:37:57 GMT -5
Afghanistan bug out has entered the chat.
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Post by biminitwisted on Jun 18, 2024 16:50:05 GMT -5
M.A.D is still a reality, and a hair trigger may not be wise.
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